Deli Rolls

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Deli Rolls
Miccss
Hi all, my son loves those rolls in the deli. I've scoured through the internet trying to find a recipe; deli rolls, kaiser rolls (although I don't know if it's kaiser rolls), but every time I made it, it didn't turn out the rolls I was looking for. The one my son likes is like soft, lean and a little chewy. It doesn't have a crunchy or thick crust. It has very thin and chewy crust. I've tried recipes on this site as well but it wasn't the right one. Does anybody know a recipe for that kind of rolls? Your input are greatly appreciated! Thank you.
badge posted by: Miccss on May 17, 2013 at 10:00 am in Baking, yeast
tags: deli bread
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reply by: Miccss on May 20, 2013 at 6:45 pm
Miccss
Hi RikkiMama, yes I tried this recipe, using the diastatic powder instead of syrup, but my son thinks the bread doesn't taste the same. I really have problem doing the steaming of the oven thing! How did everybody do that?? I sprayed the bread with water, and also tried to spray the oven wall, but never seen any steam coming out.
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reply by: Miccss on May 20, 2013 at 6:43 pm
Miccss
Thank you Swirth. Will be trying it tomorrow. Wanted to do it today but found out I'm all out of bread flour!!!
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reply by: Miccss on May 20, 2013 at 6:41 pm
Miccss
In the book Bread Baker's Apprentice, the kaiser roll recipe called for diastatic malt powder OR barley malt syrup. Don't know about bagels though.
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reply by: Miccss on May 20, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Miccss
Good to know. The deli rolls my son likes have a little more sweet taste than the one I made with diastatic malt powder so I will try the malt syrup next time. Thanks.
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reply by: KitchenBarbarian aka Zen on May 19, 2013 at 11:41 pm
KitchenBarbarian aka Zen
Well barley malt syrup I can easily get. I'll have to give it a try then.
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reply by: Miccss on May 19, 2013 at 9:53 pm
Miccss
Thank you so much everybody!!! The kaiser rolls I baked few days ago my son wasn't too thrilled about but my husband loved them! He ate them all! I am still on a mission to find the right recipe for my son's favorite rolls so I am going to try out all the recipes you guys gave me. I'll report back as soon as I tried them out. Thanks again everyone!
Mic
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reply by: Mike Nolan on May 19, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Mike Nolan
FWIW, over the years I've made bagels using DBM, NDBM and barley malt syrup. I prefer both the taste and texture of the ones made with barley malt syrup.
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reply by: KitchenBarbarian aka Zen on May 19, 2013 at 10:55 am
KitchenBarbarian aka Zen
I did look the kaiser roll recipe up on google books and though I can't see the first page with the first half of the recipe on it, I did find the baker's percentages which were listed as:
.
Pate fermentee................80%
Bread flour.....................100%
Salt....................................2%
Diastatic malt powder.........1.7%
instant yeast......................1.1%
egg..................................16.5%
oil......................................7.5%
water...............................55%
No mention of barley malt syrup there, though it may be somewhere else in the book or in the beginning of that recipe. It's not a substitution I would use though - on the other hand, I keep NOT making various types of bread because I never have diastatic malt powder on hand, LOL! Maybe making it with barley malt syrup would be better than not making it at all.
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reply by: Mike Nolan on May 19, 2013 at 9:49 am
Mike Nolan
Peter Reinhart has also published a bagel recipe in which he states that either barley malt syrup or diastatic barley malt powder can be used, although my understanding is that the syrup does not have active enzymes in it, as they are deactivated by how it has been processed. (Eden Organic's site calls their barley malt syrup a non-diastatic sweetener.)
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reply by: KitchenBarbarian aka Zen on May 19, 2013 at 2:49 am
KitchenBarbarian aka Zen
Is that actually the correct recipe? Because she's subbing barley malt SYRUP for diastatic malt powder. I think that's an incorrect substitution - isn't that the sub for NON-diastatic malt powder?
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reply by: swirth on May 17, 2013 at 6:02 pm
swirth
Here is another shaping version of the recipe link I just posted before this post:
http://bakingcirclefriends.blogspot.com/2013/04/kaiser-or-hoagie-rolls.html
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reply by: swirth on May 17, 2013 at 5:48 pm
swirth
Here is another recipe that many have used and enjoyed...from one of our members:
http://secretfoods.blogspot.com/2009/06/kaiser-rolls-knotted.html
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reply by: swirth on May 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm
swirth
Here is a much loved recipe among BakingCircle members from one of our members who owned a bakery for many years:
Kaiser Broetchen
Submitted by: Twin2
Category: Yeast Bread/Rolls (not sourdough)
Last Updated: 2/8/2009
• * One piece of old dough
• 1 3/4 cups water
• 1 1/2 teaspoons salt
• 2 Tablespoons sugar
• 1 teaspoon yeast
• 4 cups bread flour
These are the German rolls that can be found in small neighborhood bakeries all over Germany. They have a crunchy crust and soft interior and can be topped with sesame or poppy seeds.
By hand:
Mix and knead the dough until smooth (about 10 minutes)
Shape into a ball and let it rise in a covered, oiled bowl until doubled (about 1 1/2 hours)
Punch down, shape into a ball, put back in the bowl and let it double one more time, about 1 hour.
Punch down and let rest about 10 minutes.
Form rolls (10 or 12) and lay on baking sheets, cover and allow to rise until almost doubled. Reserve one piece for old dough.
Score the tops of each with a razor, making five slits from the center toward the outer edge.
(Or shape like a regular Kaiser - roll out to about a 4" disc and fold in toward the center of the roll in fifths, and press down firmly in the center of the roll, cover and let rise.)
Preheat oven to 450 degrees.
Glaze the rolls and sprinkle with poppy seeds and/or sesame seeds (if you wish, we like ours plain)
Put in the oven and reduce the temperature after 5 minutes to 400 degrees.
You may want to produce steam during the first 5 minutes of baking. (You can do this with a pan of boiling water on the oven floor, or spritz with cold water)
Bake for about 15 minutes until golden brown.
*"old dough" Before you bake this dough without the old dough for the first time, save one piece of dough, (after shaping, the size of one roll) for the next batch. This can be stored in a zip lock bag in the fridge for about a week or the freezer for a longer period. If you freeze it just thaw it out completely before using.
I made mine in the Zo yesterday on the dough cycle, let rise and shaped as directed. Then I baked them yesterday afternoon, until they were done, but not browned. I put them in a plastic bag overnight (normally heresy) and then put them back in the oven before breakfast to brown them off and crisp them up. They were fantastic, and all the time to let them rise, etc., didn't get me up at 4:00 a.m. We live and learn. Hope you try them.
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reply by: Mike Nolan on May 17, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Mike Nolan
Here's a link to the YouTube video showing the classical method of folding Kaiser rolls.
I've done this several times, it takes some practice before you get 'petals' that are the same size.

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reply by: RikkiMama on May 17, 2013 at 4:06 pm
RikkiMama
Here's a link to a blog that has the unmodified recipe for Kaiser Rolls from Peter Reinhart's Bread Baker Apprentice book, along with pictures that show how to do the knot, as described in the book:
http://ieatfood.net/2010/07/05/kaiser-rolls/
I also found a post for Benard Clayton's Kaiser Rolls from the Fresh Loaf which does not use a preferment and has pictures for an alternative way of forming the rolls:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/kaiserrolls
Looking forward to hearing how your deli rolls turned out and your son's opinion of them.
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reply by: Miccss on May 17, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Miccss
Thank you Mike. You could be right, it could be sourdough. I finally found a recipe that is close to the texture I want.
http://www.fornobravo.com/brick_oven_cooking/bread/wood_fired_bread/kais...
I need to fine tune a little to get a softer crust and also better taste. I think the deli might have added onion powder or some kind of herbs. Thanks again!
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reply by: Mike Nolan on May 17, 2013 at 10:17 am
Mike Nolan
It could be a sourdough bread, but it is also possible that they are using ingredients or equipment not normally available to home bakers.
I'm not sure what shape you're after, either. (And shape, as I say so often, is an underappreciated variable in the taste and texture of bread.)
If it is really a Kaiser shape, you can try the classic technique of folding them, which almost nobody does anymore (there's a great video showing it on Youtube), or you can buy a Kaiser roll stamp.

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