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[Mike Nolan]

I think that was just a shaping issue combined with some rising as they were waiting to go in the water.

The problem with the 'hole in the middle' method is the hole will shrink if the dough contracts. The 'wrap around the hand' method tends to produce a more uniform sized hole, because the dough doesn't contract as much, but it doesn't work with big hands and small (3 ounce) bagels.

[aaronatthedoublef]

The fight of lye vs sweet was definitely passionate and kind of entertaining. I have expected a duel using baguettes at dawn (I was watching "Hamilton" the other night).

That and mixers seem to evoke immediate and intense responses.

I need to start making bagels! One more thing to add to the list.

[Mike Nolan]

I went with the sweet poaching liquid based in part on the discussion on the BBGA forum a few weeks back.

It'd be a pain to have two pots of boiling water going, but I think for my next batch of bagels I'm going to do some in sweetened water and some in my usual baking soda water. (I sometimes use both baking soda and barley malt syrup.)

I will say these bagels, especially the 3 minute ones, remind me a bit of Montreal Bagels. (Of course, I've only had them once or twice.)

[BakerAunt]

Being retired gave me more time to bake, even before the Pandemic, but my high cholesterol issue pushed me into baking fewer cookies. My cracker output increased, because we banned commercial crackers and tortilla chips (sob!) from the house, and my husband is a Snackasaurus. While the Pandemic did not increase my baking, it spurred more experimentation, particularly with my sourdough starter. The latter may be in part because Aaron's experimentation with sourdough made me reallize that I needed to use mine for more than crackers and the rare loaf of bread. My husband also stopped looking suspiciously at breads made with sourdough and happily consumed them.

I'm Pantry Paranoid these days about running out of basic supplies--or what I consider basic supplies. I was happy that Bob's Red Mill had their free shipping option back and that they had enough of what I needed that I could stock up, even with some limits in place. I wish that they would get their milk powder back in stock, as I use it for making yogurt, my Sourdough crackers, and for my granola (another food the Snackasaurus likes). I've started holding back on using it for calcium enrichment in baked goods.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Maintaining a well stocked pantry (including butter and eggs in this) can be a bit of a challenge even in non-pandemic times. Mixes do make that a little easier so I get it. Plus I have many friends who start out baking and then give up because it doesn't look like the blog they are following. I am thinking of starting a new blog (because the world needs another person writing about baking) called "Bad bakes and ugly cakes" which features blow out and fallen cakes and cookies that spread into each other.

I am baking more and continuing to bake more even though work never slowed down (it increased) and we have more to do with the kids because they are home more. But I stopped traveling which gave me time to build a starter (plus starters were all the rage so I had the okay to have one on the counter) and time to bake bread. Plus I am sleeping less lately so that gives me more time to bake.

[Mike Nolan]

We shared one of the 3 minute bagels and one of the 30 second bagels for supper.

The first picture is the bagel that was boiled for 30 seconds:

The second picture is the bagel that was boiled for 3 minutes:

In my previous post, the bagels on the right were the 30 second ones, the ones in the middle were the 90 second ones and the ones on the left were the 180 second (3 minute) ones.

The 90 second ones and the 3 minute ones puffed up a lot more during boiling, but by the time they were baked the size differences were less obvious. The longer they boiled the softer they feel to the touch, and I think that may have impacted interior texture and color a bit though the distinct difference in color in the above photos could be caused by my camera. I should have taken a shot of them side by side. Maybe next meal. Because I used barley malt syrup, which is dark brown, my bagels always have some color in the interior. The 3 minute one was harder to cut because of the softness and the exterior is less smooth and shiny.

My wife thought the 30 second bagel had a bit more flavor from the poaching liquid but thought the 3 minute one 'tasted more like a bagel'. I thought the 30 second was was better than the 3 minute one in all respects, including chewiness.

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[BakerAunt]

It's always a treat to see a post from Cass!

On Thursday, I baked the Crispy Rye and Seed Crackers (Peter Reinhart recipe), from the dough I made Monday evening. I used whole egg for the egg wash, rather than egg white, because I had it available. I topped with sesame seed. (I pressed them into the dough by putting waxed paper on top and pushing down with my hands.) I rolled it out on parchment, with saran over the top to 28 x 24 cm. I cut them into 4 x4 cm squares. I pulled them apart so that they were spaced away from each other on the parchment. I used the convection setting of 275F and the third rack up in my oven (slightly above halfway). I initially did half the dough and baked a single sheet at a time for 25 minutes, switching the sheet around halfway through. After lunch, I baked the other two, also separately, but I cut the baking time to 24 minutes. After the crackers were done, I removed the parchment and let them cool on the hot baking sheet.

These are certainly crispy. They are not bad, but they do not wow me in a way that makes me see a need to bake them again. I cut down the time on the second batch with the idea that maybe they baked a bit too long, even though they are not burned. I think that the taste is marginally better, but it is still not what I would like. It may be that it would have been better just to use the egg white for the wash, although I’ve used whole egg for crisp bread with no issue. It may also be that the crackers would be better with dark rye flour, which would give them more flavor. My husband says they are not bad, but I suspect that he will be glad when I make another batch of the cheese crackers next week.

[Mike Nolan]

I have used everything from very high protein (> 15%) flour to Gold Medal AP (under 11%) for bagels with no problems.

Personally, I feel boiling bagels longer than 30-40 seconds per side is a mistake. I may have to make a batch of plain bagels with different times in the water to see what happens.

I will disagree with Cass a bit on the science behind boiling bagels, though, I think it is to gelatinize the surface starch, which is part of what produces the shiny surface of a classic bagel. The inner part of the bagel doesn't get hot enough in the boiling water to kill the yeast there, though the yeast towards the surface will die.

There was an interesting discussion in the BBGA forum a couple months back on whether or not an alkali bath is needed for bagels. To say opinions varied would be an understatement! Those that don't use an alkali bath generally use a bath with sugar, honey or malt syrup in it.

[chocomouse]

I really don't have a clue about what went wrong with these bagels -- I must have not measured correctly or skipped something. But the recipe is so simple, that would be difficult, and I have made this recipe before. I have not cut into the bagels yet, but will certainly at least try eating one. I think the dough was a little wetter than my usual bagel dough, and a little lighter. I let the dough balls rest for 25 minutes, and they puffed slightly. Then I shaped them (poked a hole) and set them aside while I did the rest of them. They rose quite a bit, and quickly. It was a warm day, mid-70-80 in my kitchen. I boiled them 4 at a time, 2 minutes on the first side, 1 minute on the second side (not using a timer, just estimating). They looked fine, although still obviously "risen". Put them on a baking sheet and baked for 25 minutes. They came out all shriveled up, wrinkly. They are flat, half the size as they were when they went into the oven. And flatter than any bagel I've ever made. I think the problem is 1. they rose, a lot (in hindsight, I recall about double in size) 2. They shriveled I'm not going to obsess over this, I'll just try again, or not. I have another recipe I often use, and so far that one is fine.

Aaron, I don't like a really chewy bagel (want to save my teeth!). So I use 2 cups of bread flour and 2 cups of AP. I sometimes use 1-2 cups of whole wheat. I do use KAF AP, which is higher in gluten, more comparable to bread flour.

Mike, I've used the bagel recipes in both the BBA and ABED; they're fine recipes too. Some days, I just like trying different recipes, other days I stick with something I know works.

[BakerAunt]

Today, KAF finally had the Bakewell Cream Baking Powder back in stock, so I placed an order and included it. (I had a list but was waiting for this item.) They seem to be getting re-stocked on most products.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Interesting. I wonder if you toasted your cornmeal before hand (BA I think you posted something about toasting sugar) if it might have a similar effect.

I've pulverized matzah meal to try and make it finer for baking. Never thought of using popcorn.

If you wanted cornbread and didn't have cornmeal but had popcorn this would be a handy sub.

[BakerAunt]

To go with leftover roast chicken for dinner, I made the Penzey’s Quinoa Summer Salad again. As I am still out of the Italian seasoning, I again substituted1 Tbs. of Penzey’s Sandwich Sprinkle (another small container from a gift pack). I decided to try it this time with the full ½ cup olive oil. I did not bother with the parsley.

[BakerAunt]

Eight minutes, Aaron? 🙂

We picked fourteen pounds of blueberries yesterday—not bad, but we will need to go back and pick more so that we can last out the year for baking with them, and for my husband eating them on his oatmeal. Today I experimented some more with my mother-in-law’s blueberry cobbler recipe. I looked at that cherry cobbler recipe that I made a few weeks ago (canned cherries) and noted the cake part is almost identical, except MIL’s does not use an egg. I decided to leave out the egg and follow my usual changes of reducing the salt, substituting buttermilk, and adjusting baking powder and baking soda. I also used 1/3 barley flour. I cut the vanilla to ½ tsp. The topping has never satisfied me; the original recipe took 4 Tbs. of butter, which is not typical for cobblers. I looked at the cherry cobbler recipe and decided to go with 1/3 cup sugar, ½ Tbs. cornstarch and 2 Tbs. water (neither in the original recipe), and 1 Tbs. butter and the usual 1 cup of blueberries. I cooked it on the stove top until thick. I then added ½ cup more of blueberries after removing from the heat. I baked it at 375F, as it was in a 9-inch round glass dish, on the third rack up in the oven for 28 minutes. The topping was a little too thick, so next time I’ll either reduce or eliminate the cornstarch.

I also must give thanks to my husband because as I was putting the lid on the vanilla, I knocked the measuring cup with buttermilk and vanilla off the counter. It went all over the floor, and me. The heavy measuring cup did not break on our ash floor. (It would have been a goner on the previous tile one.) While I ran upstairs to change clothes (should have been wearing an apron), my husband cleaned up the mess, so that I could return, replace the ingredients, and get the cobbler into the oven.

[BakerAunt]

On Monday evening, I made the dough for “Crispy Rye and Seed Crackers,” a recipe in Peter Reinhart’s Artisan Breads Every Day, (pp. 133-136). It’s a variation on the recipe in his Whole Grain Breads. I was not sure what kind of rye flour to use and decided to use medium rye. Instead of grinding flax seeds (I do not keep those in my pantry), I substituted flax meal by weight. I used canola oil and honey. The dough seemed a bit sticky, so I mixed in an additional tablespoon of white rye. (I had put the medium rye back in the apt. refrigerator and did not want to go get it again.) I did the brief kneading using white rye flour sprinkled on the mat. I’ve divided the dough into four pieces and refrigerated it, as he says it improves after a day or two in the refrigerator and can be held there for up to a week or frozen to use later. If the recipe works for us, I will have an additional cracker recipe. Due to the ground seeds, however, they only keep about eight days at room temperature. I suspect that would not be a problem at Aaron's house.

[Mike Nolan]

I won't eat obviously moldy bread, some bread molds are not harmful but some may be, and the color isn't always an accurate guide. (Red and yellow molds are the ones I've heard have to be avoided.)

There was an interesting story on the web over the weekend on the race to commercialize penicillin in the early 40's. While Dr. Fleming discovered penicillin in bread mold in the 20's, the most powerful commercial strain of it back in the 40's came from a moldy melon.