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[BakerAunt]

I thought that Sift was becoming increasingly glitzy in trying to appeal to the demographic that Zen (now Pyewacket) dubbed "boutique bakers." I find that ironic in that this group is the most unlikely to pick up the magazine. The former publication, The Baking Sheet, in its last two iterations before ceasing publication, were more focused on the practical baker. With those publications I felt that I belonged to a group of bakers that wanted to learn and grow. I never felt that with Sift, which had a bit for beginning bakers but seemed to focus more on less everyday items.

I don't think King Arthur will have another regular publication.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

We prefer smaller buns and rolls as well. I use metric for dividing them for shaping--much easier to do the math!--and usually have a bun that is around 70 grams. The last time we grilled hamburgers--summer of 2018!--I used Ellen's (Moomie's) recipe and made them a bit larger.

[BakerAunt]

I'm not sure what KAF uses for converting its recipes to metric weights, but when I made a mostly spelt bread, I discovered that it only comes out well if I use their volume measurements. When I checked, volume against grams, the grams listed were much lower than what the flour actually weighs. Thus, the bread didn't work with the gram measurements and the dough was too wet, but when I used the volume measurements, I had a nice loaf of bread. Here's the recipe.

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/honey-spelt-sourdough-bread-recipe

I posted a comment, but KAF did not respond to it. Although another person mentions no problem with weights, I wonder if that person was using the English (used to be listed) rather than the metric weights. I seem to recall that I noted a discrepancy with metric measurements in another recipe as well. So, for KAF recipes, I don't trust the metric weights, and I measure by volume.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by BakerAunt.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by BakerAunt.

[Mike Nolan]

I thought it was interesting that the BBGA Kaiser roll formula uses less than 3 1/4 ounces of dough per roll. The Kaiser rolls I see in the stores and the ones they use in fast food restaurants tend to be HUGE, they've got to be 4 or 5 ounces after baking!

When I make hamburger buns, I tend to use 2 to 2 1/2 ounces per bun, as I prefer smaller burgers (not quite sliders but close).

[Mike Nolan]

I have always thought that the reason first clear flour was used for rye bread was that it isn't pure white (more of a pale yellow or cream color) but when mixed with rye flour that didn't matter since the rye flour is much more towards brown. First clear flour was once less expensive than patent flour, though that's not true today, at least not unless you can buy a big bag of it, and maybe not then, either. This may be because flour milling has changed over the years, clear flours used to be important intermediate stages in the milling process, I'm not sure that is true any more.

Another thing to be aware of with first clear flour is that everything I've made with it has been prone to go moldy quicker than if made with patent flour. I'm not sure why, something to do with increase bran or germ, I suspect, or maybe higher ash levels. But unless I'm concerned with having a white color, I do like the taste of products made with first clear flour.

I don't see what the point to having caraway in a rye starter would be. A starter is all about enzymes, yeasts and bacteria, and caraway isn't really contributing to those.

The challenge with standardizing volume to weight measures is that nobody agrees on how much a cup of flour should weigh. King Arthur uses 4.25 ounces for AP flour, the USDA database uses 125 grams (4.41 ounces). Other authors use a number anywhere from 4 ounces per cup to 5, and I've seen a few that appeared to use 5.25 ounces per cup.

Other ingredients have similar problems.

For example, while table salt is fairly standardized, kosher salt is not, because the crystal sizes vary from one brand to another. A tablespoon of kosher salt is about the same weight as 2 to 2 1/2 teaspoons of table salt. Morton Salt advises against using kosher salt in baking. About the only advantage I see to using kosher salt in baking is that it isn't iodized. Some people can detect a bitter metallic taste with iodized salt though I can't say I've noticed it.

I've been building a tool for entering recipes that has baker's math capabilities, so I've been trying to decide on what standard volume-to-weight measurements to use in it. I need to do some work on it, I updated the PHP software on my server a while back and that broke some things in my program, which is mainly a proof-of-concept tool at this point, I need to expand the food database it has, too.

Another challenge is rounding errors. Consider table salt. USDA says a teaspoon of salt weighs 6 grams. It also says a cup of salt weighs 292 grams. 6 x 48 = 288, so there's a 1.3% difference. But nobody is likely to want to measure 6.0833 grams of salt. (Many of our small measuring spoons are grossly inaccurate, but that's a separate problem.)

A lot of bread formulas in baker's math format specify 2% salt. I suspect that's another form of rounding error. I've not checked the scientific literature to see if anybody's done a study of how much salt bread 'should' have, but 2% is a convenient number to use.

The nutrition labels required in the USA exacerbate this problem, both because of how they round to whole integers and what they say a portion size is. For flour, a single serving is usually 1/4 cup, which is generally either 29 or 30 grams. So a cup of flour would weigh either 116 or 120 grams. (As noted earlier, the USDA database says a cup of flour weighs 130 grams.)

People have done studies of how much yeast to use, but that gets into time vs flavor trade-off issues, which are separate from volumetric concerns.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Mike, that is an AWESOME cake!

I made some more rye bread. This time I used part bread flour and part first clear with the rye. In "Secrets of a Jewish Baker" all the recipes use first clear and rye flours exclusively. But then reading the Rye Baker website here it said to only use about 40% first clear. I used less than that but it was mostly because I ran out. In "Jewish Holiday Baking" the author uses bread flour exclusively.

I think the loaves had a higher rise. I need to wait a while before I cut them but I want to see if they are less dense. I'll let you know how they taste.

Also, the problem with using a rye starter for other breads is they all seem to have caraway seeds. So if I can figure out a way to add the caraway seeds when I build the bread dough instead of adding them to the starter I can probably get away with one.

While I was waiting for the loaves to rise before baking (I still need LOTS of practice shaping - I have one half-decent batard) I also made some brownies so as not to sit idle. Something isn't quite right. I think I use too little chocolate and too little flour. It's a little confusing sometime carrying things between home and the restaurant but, I have access to a restaurant kitchen at no charge so I am pretty happy about that.

BTW, does anyone have a good conversion from volume to weight. As I scale up my batches it will be easier and more accurate to use weights.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by aaronatthedoublef.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by aaronatthedoublef.

[Mike Nolan]

I think sifting whole wheat flour would remove the biggest pieces of bran and germ. I've done that a few times myself, I think it makes for a slightly less 'toothy' bread. It would also lower the protein content a little.

I've actually run some of my freshly milled flour through a fairly fine screen mesh (at least 25 wires to the inch, I've also got one that is 40 wires to the inch), it isn't quite the same as having bolting screens, but it is the best I can do at this time. (The biggest problem is that it creates a LOT of dust.)

[BakerAunt]

Thanks for finding the recipe and doing the math, Mike. I've printed it for reference.

I did some googling, and King Arthur AP flour has a protein content of 11.7, so I'd use that instead of bread flour. I looked at whole wheat. I have KAF white whole wheat (13% protein) and Bob's Red Mill Whole Wheat, which both appear to have 13% protein.

I'm not going to try that Jack-o-lantern stamp. I compared it to two Kaiser stamps that I have (one heavy plastic and one acrylic), and it's a lot smaller. I think starting with the regular one might be a better plan. I will let you know when I bake these and how they turn out.

[BakerAunt]

For dinner on Wednesday, I made my adaptation of my mother’s hamburger stroganoff, which we had over a blend of wild and brown rice, with microwaved broccoli as a side dish. Instead of low-fat sour cream in the stroganoff, I used Fage 2% Greek yogurt (on sale at store), and it worked well.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by BakerAunt.

[Mike Nolan]

I made two Texas Chocolate Sheet Cakes, one 10 x 10 that is for my wife's office and one 8 x 8 for us.

To decorate them, I found a silicone mold for skeleton parts and made two skeletons with white chocolate.

I also made a recipe for ossi dei morti that is different than the one I made a couple of years ago. It doesn't have any leavening in it so they're really solid almond cookies with some cinnamon and clove in it, and a bit darker in color. I made a variety of Halloween shapes, including some tombstones that I hoped would go in the cake, the rest will probably go on a plate for people to eat. (Couldn't find space for the tombstones.)

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[chocomouse]

I had fun preparing our meal tonight. I made a Dutch baby, something I've thought about doing for many years, but just never followed through. It came out perfect -- puffed right up, beautifully browned, and delicious. I filled it with breakfast sausages and sliced apples which I had precooked. I used a 14" cast iron skillet for the Dutch baby, and a 10 inch for the sausage and apples. Only thing I would change next time is to put more nutmeg, cloves, cinnamon in the batter (I used only a little nutmeg this time) and maybe add about 3 tablespoons of maple syrup to the sausage and apples (in addition to the brown sugar and cinnamon this time). Next summer I plan to fill one with fresh berries and whipped cream. And hey, why not ice cream and chocolate sauce! That would give me a good excuse to buy some of those small, 4"?, cast iron skillets!

[Mike Nolan]

I've never used a Kaiser roll stamp, I have made Kaiser rolls using the fold method a number of times, it always takes me 4 or 5 rolls before I get the knack down again, so I usually make a few, throw them back in the bowl and do them again.

I think you don't want to use too strong of a flour for Kaiser rolls, I looked on the BBGA site and the Kaiser roll recipe there is 55% high extraction flour (or sifted whole wheat) and 45% 'bread flour' with a note that says 11.5 to 11.7% protein. The rest of the formula is 61% water, 2% salt, 1% yeast, 4% egg, 2.8% sugar and 2.8% oil. Use 90 grams (3.17 ounces) of dough for each roll and let them rest for 20 minutes before using the stamp. The way this recipe gets the seeds to stick is to moisten the top with a wet towel then dip the roll in seeds.

For those who don't want to do the baker's math, here's the recipe sized for 12 rolls:

341 grams high extraction/sifted whole wheat flour
279 grams AP flour (11.7% protein)
379 grams water
12.4 grams salt
6.2 grams instant dry yeast
24.8 grams egg
17.4 grams sugar
17.4 grams vegetable oil

Not sure about baking temp/time, the recipe calls for 20 minutes at 400 degrees in a convection oven with steam.

[BakerAunt]

I was going through my baking gadgets and found a plastic Jack-o-lantern Kaiser roll stamp that I bought from KAF years ago. I remember trying it once, probably with this recipe:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/kaiser-rolls-recipe

What I remember is that I did not get the design, except faintly on one roll. I'm thinking about trying it again (and subbing in some white whole wheat flour for some of the AP). Has anyone had success with that recipe using a stamp? I read the comments, and most people had some issues with stamp design (using a regular Kaiser roll stamp) NOT being visible after baking. It would be nice to have these for Halloween if the design would show up.

If you have a suggestion about other Kaiser roll recipes instead of the KAF one that would also be helpful. I'm going to check some of my baking books. After all, it's a rainy cold day, so baking is on my radar for today.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

I selected the correct answer in spite of my husband's lecturing me on why the metric system is more valuable since 1 milliliter equals 1 gram. I pointed out that was not the question I was asked to answer. (I may have also said something about do you want to cook your own dinner....) 🙂

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

I made an experimental soup for lunch today (and into the week). I used Penzey's beef base and hot water, and the liquid left from cooking the lima beans last week. I sautéed some onion, celery, and carrots, before adding the liquids, a scant cup barley, and rosemary, thyme, a bay leaf, and a dash of sweet Paprika. As it turns out, I didn't have enough substance in the soup, so I pulled out 15 oz. of garbanzo beans that I had frozen and added them. It's an ok soup and will get me through the next few days, which are supposed to be rather chilly.