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- This topic has 149 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 10 months ago by Mike Nolan.
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August 11, 2019 at 9:21 am #17545
As I read your post, BakerAunt, I wondered if part of my shaping problem is the size I'm making. Just checked the recipe & it says 9" to 12" pizzas. I think I've been trying to stretch it larger than 12". Never measured it. The last 2 times, I've hand-shaped it mostly on the parchment without putting olive oil on the parchment. I'm thinking now that I should put a light layer of olive oil on the parchment. What do you think? Do you?
RiversideLen, I really appreciate the tip about the semolina. KAF's Now or Later Pizza uses 1-1/2 cups semolina, which makes me nervous. For health reasons, I shouldn't be eating so much. I have dough for 1 crust in the freezer. Next time I make the dough, I'll use more AP flour and only 1/2 cup semolina. I'm also thinking I'd have better shaping success if I shaped on my granite pastry board (thanks, Mike, for the tip about these), but I'm worried whether I'd be able to transfer the crust off the board. Pioneer Woman does it with her pizzas, but I've never used her recipe for crust.
Mike, do you think KAF's Italian Style flour would have more gliadin? I guess I could call and ask them.
August 11, 2019 at 10:39 am #17548Worth asking. True Italian flours are made with European wheat, which are generally a softer wheat and lower in protein than North American flours, and as I understand it ground to a finer consistency than most North American flours. So the gliadin/glutenin ratio might be different, too, although that's not something that's easy to test at the mill.
Peter Reinhart's 'Roman' crust in his American Pie book makes the thinnest crust I've seen in years. You can almost read through it.
August 11, 2019 at 3:39 pm #17564As I was returning from Canada to Washington DC Area, I stopped by Plattsburg, New York. A grocery store there 32 had ready to bake pizza in half sheet pans. These were 10.99 which seemed a really good deal, I wish some of the local grocery stores had that. A half sheet pan worth of pizza could feed me lunch for a couple of weeks! Has anyone made pizza that big?
They also had bellini which seemed a cross between a bread stick and a calzone. Take a thin round pizza, put a small amount of cheese and pepperoni and then fold two opposite sides toward the middle. Also a Lavash pizza baked on a stone. Are these New Englandish style pizza?August 11, 2019 at 4:59 pm #17565I have experience with KAF's Italian style flour. It makes a very soft and compliant dough, you stretch it out and it will stay there, zero snap back. I found it's easy to overstretch. The end result is a soft crust pizza. If you want soft crust, it's a great flour. And it's the easiest dough you will ever stretch.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by RiversideLen.
August 11, 2019 at 6:00 pm #17568Thanks, RiversideLen, for your input about the Italian style flour. Since I'm a fledgling pizza maker, I haven't decided what type of crust I prefer. When ordering out, I just eat whatever they make. My husband likes the crustiness of the Now or Later Pizza that's par-baked before the toppings are put on. When I figure out where to store yet another kind of flour, I'll buy some Italian style and try it. KAF has a recipe for a spinach and feta pizza that uses that flour. I'd like to try that.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Italiancook.
August 11, 2019 at 7:11 pm #17571Chicago has several different styles of pizza, and they're all pretty good. I've also had some of NYC's better-rated pizza, they were pretty good, too.
I like Chicago stuffed pizza, deep dish pizza and thin crust pizza best. I also like cracker crust pizza which is different from thin crust (and different from lavash pizza, though the differences are subtle.)
There's a brewpub in Lincoln that does lavash pizza (which is where we got the idea to start doing our own once we found a good source for lavash), I always thought it was more of a west coast thing than an east coast one.
August 19, 2019 at 6:49 am #17738Just made pizza for the whole family last night for the first time all summer. It's the first time everyone has been home since mid-June. I probably make pizza about 45 weeks a year. What I do has been customized specifically to my family's tastes.
I have definite, discreet tasks and they do not (and actually should not) need to be done the day off.
I make a big batch of dough every couple of weeks - about 3.5 pounds. I let the dough rise for about 36 hours. I let it go longer if the rise is chilled and less if the rise is on the counter and less still if it rises on the counter in the summer. I took a cooking class in Italy years ago and the instructor said in Naples the dough rises for three days before it is used so I started trying that. I gone as long as five days and as short as a few hours and found what my family likes best. I mix the dough by hand as my KitchenAid cannot handle near that much dough and I've done it enough now that it takes me about 10 minutes so I'm not sure the mixer would be any faster.
My dough is a mixture of KAF white whole wheat which is about 14% protein according to the label mixed with a lower gluten flour. I've used KAF pastry flour and a variety of cake flours. I started with the Queen until she was banished from the realm and then went to Bob's which is also no longer available. Now I use Soft as Silk. I also use flax meal and chickpea flour when I have it, both of which are gluten free. I use flax because I don't use any oil in my dough and it adds a fullness to the flavor that was otherwise missing. I use chickpea to add some nutritional protein for my six year old who does not eat a lot of proteins in her diet. I use Bob's flax and chickpea flours. I use these because they are (or were) readily available at reasonable prices in local markets. I supposed I could use the oo Italian flour but it's more esoteric AND must be ordered from KAF. I use 50% cake flour, 40% WWW, and 10% other.
After I divide these up into 5.5 ounce rounds and wrap them individually and either put them in the refrigerator or freezer depending on when I will need them. Usually half go in the freezer and half in the refrigerator. I wrap each round in plastic and then put them in Ziplock bags. They last a few days in the fridge and a few months in the freezer. I use a rolling pin because it allows me to make a very thin, even crust that is between 11 and 12 inches. My dough is not very stretchy because of the low gluten flours. I could hand stretch it but it would not be as flat and would have a big crust edge that my family does not prefer. Tossing dough, while entertaining, is messy and sends flour all over the kitchen so I stopped that a while ago. The Giordano's in my neighborhood in Chicago used a sheeter but they were making hundreds of crusts a day. They used it for thin crust and stuffed.
My wife used to make sauce but she doesn't since she found a jarred sauce she likes. I was starting to make it because the sauce she likes is crazy expensive at the grocery stores but then Costco started carrying it for a little more reasonable price. But it's still on my list to start making my own sauce. Again, while this can be done day of, it can also be done way ahead. We used to have frozen sauce and dough waiting to be used.
The stuff I always do day off is grate the cheese - I could use shredded cheese but haven't found one my family likes yet - and prepare any of the toppings. Of these two tasks I could actually grate the cheese a couple of days a head of time if I thought about it.
My wife usually cuts up the vegetables but I did that last night since she was out with two of our kids.
I let the ovens heat for about 45 minutes before I start to bake so I turned them on when I started grating cheese and cutting vegetables.
I did the day-of prep, made six pizzas, and cleaned up and it took me under two hours.
Making pizza is like anything else, the more you do it the more practiced you will become and it will be faster and more routine. Also by breaking things down into discreet tasks and figuring out what can be done ahead to make day-of prep easier.
August 19, 2019 at 11:40 am #17744Thanks for the extended post.
We prefer whole milk mozzarella, which we can get in shredded form in 5 pound bags at Sams, though most recently I had to go to the Sams that is further away in Lincoln to get it. (NONE of the grocery stores carry whole-milk mozzarella.) As to the argument that whole milk mozzarella is higher in fat, I think you use less of it when it's whole milk compare to part-skim, because it spreads out more, so it kind of balances out.
I haven't found a jarred pizza sauce I like, mainly because most of them have garlic in them. I use Hunts Traditional or Mushroom sauce for spaghetti, they're both garlic-free. I haven't tried it on pizza, mainly because I haven't actually made pizza from scratch other than the lavash pizza in a while, because there's just two of us.
If I'm making spaghetti and meatballs, I take one can of Hunts, add one 15.5 ounce can of diced no-salt tomatoes and one (sometimes two) 4 ounce can of mushrooms, and I cook the meatballs in that. If you're going to cook meatballs in sauce, as opposed to frying or baking them, I think it helps to use meat that is at least 85% lean.
I also have a no-garlic marinara recipe posted here that makes quite a bit of sauce, it starts with a #10 can of diced tomatoes. It's enough for a batch of lasagna and is very good on both pizza and spaghetti. I puree it with a stick blender, but for spaghetti I'd be tempted to do what I have been doing lately with the Hunts sauce and mix some sauce with some diced tomatoes, because we really like having chunks of tomatoes in our spaghetti sauce. If I put tomatoes on pizza, I prefer them to be sliced, not diced.
August 19, 2019 at 1:38 pm #17748Aaron, thanks so much for your informative post. I'm encouraged by all you can do for pizzas within 2 hours. I'll keep pluggin' away along the learning curve. Thanks!
September 18, 2019 at 12:07 pm #18261I made KAF's Nor or Later pizza crust and put half in a plastic bag in the freezer. When I took it out 3 days ago to thaw, I left it in the bag. Should I have put it in an oiled bowl instead?
I'm turning it into Artichoke Pizza for dinner.
September 18, 2019 at 12:26 pm #18262I think it'll be fine left in the bag.
September 18, 2019 at 4:37 pm #18264Agreed. I wrap dough in oiled plastic wrap and that goes into freezer bags and into the freezer. I let it thaw on the counter or in the refrigerator depending on how quickly I need it.
September 18, 2019 at 8:52 pm #18268Thanks, Mike & Aaron. I like the idea of wrapping the dough in oiled plastic wrap, Aaron. I'll do that next time before putting in bags to freeze. I have wondered whether I could let it thaw on the counter to use same day. Now I know I can. Thanks, Aaron.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Italiancook.
September 18, 2019 at 9:15 pm #18270I've made pizza dough and let it sit out overnight, but I think it is better if I refrigerate it overnight and take it out about 3 hours before I plan to make pizza. Leaving it out overnight the dough gets a bit too 'beery' for me.
September 19, 2019 at 12:16 pm #18285I like the 'beery'-ness. My family like 1-2 days and if it were up to me I would refrigerate it for about five days.
If I need it to go from freezer to oven fast I leave it out on the counter. It defrosts in about two hours. My oldest brought a friend home unexpectedly and I had to pull out extra dough. I can thaw it faster if I run the bags under luke-warm water.
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