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[Mike Nolan]

I don't blind bake much, but I have done some experimenting with it. I never use a baking sheet under the pan for blind baking, I think it interferes with the air flow.

I have played around a little with the convection cycle on my oven for blind baking, but not enough to have reached any conclusions yet. (I do use the convection cycle for the first 20 minutes of baking a fruit pie.)

I use white pie beans. When we blind-baked in pastry school, our instructor told most of us to add more beans, so make sure you use enough.

In pastry school we used parchment to line the pan (the beans should never touch the pie dough), I've also tried aluminum foil and coffee filters, of these commercial-sized coffee filters seem to be best, but mostly because they've already got the right shape. But you generally have to buy them in huge quantities. The biggest advantage of aluminum foil is if you mold it over the edges you generally don't need to use a pie shield to keep the top edge from getting over-baked.

All our pies in pastry school were made in disposable aluminum foil pie pans. At home I use a glass pie pan for blind baking, I use a Norpro non-stick pan for fruit pies. (It really is non-stick, you can slide the pie right out once it's cool.)

Some blind baking instructions (including, as I recall, King Arthur's) recommend you remove the pie beans for the last 5 minutes or so of baking, but that's challenging because they're HOT. I'm not sure it's necessary, either. We didn't do that in pastry school.

Lately my pie-baking experimentation has been geared towards trying to determine the optimal thickness of pie dough, from which I'm hoping to be able to create a pie dough recipe calculator, so you don't have too much left over pie dough or run short. To assist in this effort I'm using a digital caliper which can measure in 0.01 inch increments that I got at Shipwreck Beads.

One thing I wonder about pie dough is whether the type of pie dough (butter, lard, shortening or a combination of fats) affects the ideal thickness. I suppose it might affect proper blind baking as well.

I consider hot water pie crusts a different breed, worthy of its own set of investigations.

[Mike Nolan]

I've resigned myself to the fact that there are ingredients just that have to be ordered online, pastry flour, for example. (All I can find locally is whole wheat pastry flour, which I am not impressed with.) I can't find semolina locally any more, either. (The co-op used to stock it in bulk but dropped it.)

WalMart's selection often leaves a lot to be desired. I buy some items there because of price, but even then the local chains often beat them on the basics, especially if you watch for the sales.

[BakerAunt]

I recently bought a copy of Dorie's Cookies, by Dorie Greenspan. I have wanted it for some time, but I waited until AFTER we had moved. (My husband still mutters about the weight of my books.) It looks like a great cookbook, with a picture for every recipe. I was particularly delighted to see buckwheat cookies. However, in addition to buckwheat flour, three of the four recipes also call for medium granulated kasha, and so far, I've struck out at finding it locally. She specifies Wolff's. Possibly I looked in the wrong place in the stores--cereals and the "specialized health" sections. I know it was not with grains in Walmart, but possibly I missed it there in the other stores, since I was looking among cereals. (I initially failed to find polenta locally because I didn't realize that the stores stock it with hot cereal.) I will have to wait on these three recipes until I can locate it.

[BakerAunt]

Last week the remodeled Aldi's opened, right across the intersection from the Walmart at which we shop in the larger town northeast of us. My husband sighed, when I told him that I wanted to stop there on our "hit all the stores (Walmart, Walgreens, and Kroger) while we are in town trip. He initially sat in the car while I went in. After looking around, I went back, deposited my quarter, and got a basket.

I was impressed. They had the best prices on peanuts and cashews that I've seen out here, and if the taste is good, they will be a good bargain. I was also able to find a good price on fresh lemons and broccoli, sweet potatoes were 39 cents a pound, and butter was $2.89. After I'd been in a while, investigating, my husband came in to hurry me along. I placated him with an Austrian dark chocolate (49%) bar that I'd bought. We had some for lunch, and we agreed that it is wonderful--and I'm not usually a dark chocolate fan. The chocolate has convinced him that Aldi's should be one of our regular stops on our grocery runs.

[BakerAunt]

Hi, Aaron,

ATK liked ceramic and heavier metal pie tins equally (they were using one from Williams-Sonoma), but they were less thrilled with glass ones. ATK ultimately liked the metal one because they did not want a wavy rim to limit their crimping options. My Emile Henry pie plates only have the gentle wave, not the dynamic one they started making later.

My metal pie plates actually have a wide rim with a trough for catching baking juices. My mother had this kind of pie pan, and I was able to find two in an independent hardware store in West Los Angeles thirty years or so ago. I picked up another one at an estate sale. These are heavier than the average modern pie pan. My guess is that a heavier metal pan would hold the heat and assist in browning. The main issue for me with a blind-baked crust is getting the bottom properly done; it does not cook as fast as the top and the sides do with the pie weights inside. I'm not sure putting it on a baking sheet is the best approach for blind baking.

We need Mike Nolan to do a blog on blind-baking crust techniques!

[aaronatthedoublef]

BA - Thanks for all the tips. I used disposable aluminum pie tins. I have so Pyrex ones that I may try but I started the disposable tins when I was taking pie to other people and I've just stuck with it. my dough was a little wetter than normal this year and I rolled it out on parchment then flipped it from the parchment into the tin. Like you I am a crust fan. Both of my crusts were the softest I remember them being. I also placed the tins on sheet pans. That will slow the browning of the crust and, as the blind bake article points out, it makes it easier to put the tin into and take it out of the oven.

I did try the sugar though I agree it is wasteful I was a little desperate. In the past I've used beans and pennies (which probably heat up too fast) and I've used parchment, foil, and even a second tin. A second tin is okay so long as you do not care about a nice, crimped edge which I really want for a Thanksgiving pie.

I have new things to try next time.

As for the turkey it was good. I just needed to follow my own advice about when to take it out next time. But my sis-in-law who was very kind to help is a chickenologist (poultry scientist actually) and has cooked more turkeys than I so I followed her advice. Next time I will keep my own counsel. One good thing I read online was that if you do not have a rack to place the turkey on but want a crisp bottom cut up some vegetables, place them on the bottom of the pan, and place the turkey on the vegetables. We used carrots, potatoes, and onions and they tasted EXCELLENT!

[BakerAunt]

Cass's point--that olive oil, unlike butter, does not contain water--suggests to me that while a baker might get away with a small substitution, the more that is substituted, the more likely the recipe will not bake well. My guess is that it might need less flour or maybe some additional liquid with water added. There probably is not a simple chart with a set ratio for certain amounts.

Recently Cass took some time to trouble shoot with me on my Polenta Asiago Bread. One of his suggestions (along with holding back some of the water) was that I wait to add the oil until the bread has been kneaded for four minutes or so, as the oil will inhibit gluten development. Once the gluten has gotten going, then the oil can be added. In other words, oil will not act like water does, because it does not contain water. I tried this technique with my pizza dough, and I got a lighter, chewier crust. I kneaded the dough for several minutes, then drizzled in the olive oil. However, it is more difficult to incorporate the oil at this later stage. Also, this recipe was designed to use olive oil, so I was not making a substitution.

[BakerAunt]

So, I ended up baking after all on Sunday evening. I baked cornbread to go with our soup. I used some coarse grind cornmeal with the finer ground cornmeal (1/4 cup and 3/4 cup), since we like a bit of crunch in it.

[Italiancook]

This morning, I baked "Quick and Easy Coffee Cake or Muffins" from http://www.breadworld.com (Fleischmann's). It is an easy recipe, but I wouldn't call it quick. From start to finish, it took 2-1/2 hours, but that included greasing the baking dishes and gathering and replacing canisters. I'm not complaining about the time, because the coffee cake tastes very good. And, the recipe makes 2 coffee cakes, or one cake with 12 muffins. I opted for the 2 cakes so I could put one in the freezer. I'm starting to incorporate olive oil in my baking. For the butter, I used 2/3 olive oil and 1/3 butter. Finished product still tasted good enough to serve to house guests. I don't think I'll ever have the courage to use all olive oil in baked goods. After all, butter makes food taste delicious.

[RiversideLen]

On Thursday I made Skinny Pumpkin Pie, recipe on the Betty Crocker web site. It's an oil crust that only uses 1/4 cup of oil. I've made oil crusts before, in fact they are my mainstay, I call them "good enough crusts". This crust, however, was just too little oil. It turned out a bit hard and stuck to the pie plate in spots even though I gave the plate a light spray of Pam. The filling was OK but a little soft. It tasted fine as I seasoned it my way (1 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon and a teaspoon of vanilla extract, nothing else). I don't care for traditional pumpkin pie seasoning (people who don't like pumpkin pie tend to like mine). Not a waste but I've made better.

Today I made Pumpkin Chocolate Chip Cake. I haven't made this is several years but I remember it being pretty good, a little heavy because of the pumpkin but good. It smelled pretty good coming out of the oven. I'll be serving it tomorrow. The pics are from several years ago, the last time I had made it.

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[BakerAunt]

Hi, Aaron,

My pie crust (see earlier post) for my pumpkin pie was prebaked. I used my buttermilk pie crust recipe, with 2 Tbs. sugar, and accidentally used all butter rather than half butter and half Crisco. Except for one little side, there was no shrinkage.

My technique is an amalgamation of several sources. The pie recipe is adapted from the KAF 200th Anniversary Cookbook but I used 2 1/2 cups pastry flour and 1/2 cup whole wheat pastry flour. When I add the liquid, after cutting in the butter, I follow Ken Haedrich's instructions and add all the liquid at once. I refrigerate for an hour. In this case, it was longer because, like you, I have others mucking around in my kitchen area. The dough really was too hard when I started to roll it out. I follow the technique in the Cooks Baking Illustrated and in The Dessert Bible, but I roll the dough out onto a wide piece of parchment paper (Reynolds), cover it with a wide piece of saran (cooking store), then roll it out to 1/8th inch, in part because I like crust. It could be rolled thinner, using pastry wands to get the height exact. I then flip the whole thing over and peel off the parchment. I put my hand between the saran and the counter, and pick up the crust and gently fit it over the pie plate, then carefully position it. When I'm satisfied, I peel off the saran, then finish tucking it into the pie plate. I fold over the edges and crimp them so that they rest on the pie rim. I then lightly cover with the saran wrap and put it in the refrigerator to chill for 40 minutes. Usually, I then move it to the freezer for 20 minutes, but his time I put it outside on the cement, where it was below freezing and put a plastic cover over it to ward off inquisitive animals. I left it there for 30 minutes. I preheat the oven for at least 30 minutes at 375F.

Note: I like Emile Henry ceramic pie plates for my pumpkin and apple pies. (I use a metal one for blueberry, cherry, or pecan.)

When I am ready to bake, I put an industrial coffee filter in the pie plate That was a hint from KAF, but instead of selling them, they now sell these fancy liners from England. Coffee filters are cheaper (office store online; restaurant store), and I've discovered can be used for other things, such as draining pumpkin puree. The two Cooks books used double layer aluminum foil. I've also used parchment.

I think that it is silly that the Serious Eats author uses sugar. What a waste. Buy cheap beans and use them over and over and over. I've been using one set for over 25 years. I don't think that I've used enough, hence the one spot of shrinkage, so I'm going to make sure that next time it is full. Don't use ceramic pie weights--they get too hot and melt the butter in the crust. I would think metal pie chains would be equally as bad.

Once the beans are in, the pie plate goes into the middle of the oven to bake at 375F for 21 minutes until the sides are set. Remove pie plate from oven. Carefully lift out the liner with beans. (I move it to a heat-safe plate to cool.) Return the pie plate to the oven. If filling will require 20 minutes or less of baking time, bake 7 minutes more. If it will require more than 20 minutes, bake only 4 minutes more. If filling requires no baking, then bake 15-20 minutes more.

However, I like to go by whether the bottom looks sufficiently cooked to me on time. For my pumpkin pies, and additional 5-6 minutes will do it. (Note: my pumpkin pie filling is hot when I put it into the hot crust.) Once the filling is in, I bake at 425F for 10 minutes, then reduce heat to 350F. I check the pie for doneness starting 8 minutes after that. This time it took 10 minutes after I turned down the heat. Next time, I will likely put a pie shield over the crust, because my husband would prefer that it be more lightly baked.

I cannot at the moment remember if I put the pecan pie filling into a hot crust; my husband buried the box with that cookbook, and I don't expect to see it until next summer. It's Bernard Clayton's Pecan Pie recipe form The Complete Book of Pastry: Sweet and Savory.

I hope that some of this information might help you to tweak what you do. I expect that Mike Nolan, who has more experience than I, will also weigh in.

As for turkey roasting--my husband has taken over that, but this year, I actually got the rack moved down lower, and he was amazed that it cooked faster and the top did not dry out. When I roast turkeys, I follow Rick Rogers methods in Thanksgiving 101.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

Friday evening, I baked Nelson's Choice Rye Bread--a recipe from KAF on the back of a bag of First Clear Flour (although they have now changed the recipe and its title after complaints that it did not bake well). The recipe is originally from Secrets of a Jewish Baker. Usually it works well for me, although not always, as it is a wetter dough and hard to get just right. However, it is the bread that I dream about with turkey sandwiches. Now that I'm retired, I have time to make it after Thanksgiving.
I decided to try mixing and kneading it in the bread machine--but only after the initial step of letting the mixture of yeast, sugar, and rye flours sit for 20 minutes. I then stirred in the sour cream, put that mixture into the pan of the bread machine, and added the flour. As usual with this recipe, I had to add some additional flour--3 Tbs. (I need to remember to hold back some of the water.), but I did omit 2 Tbs. vital wheat gluten. I do not have it, and I do not intend to buy it again, as I seem to get the same results without it. It was a sticky dough. After a first rise of 50 minutes, I pre-shaped it as a boule, let it rest for 10 minutes, and I shaped it again. I let it rise in an 8-inch cake pan, slashing it after 30 minutes, and letting it rise an additional 7 minutes to recover a bit from the slashing. I was not expecting to get a great rise, but I was wrong, as it was the best rise I've had with this recipe. It is not "pretty, in that it follows the 2-inch high sides of the pan before doming. It also stuck a bit on the sides, but I was able to run a spatula around the circumference, and it came out without any damage. The recipe should work very nicely in my bread bowl--once I find it!
Why did it rise better? I think that the bread machine may have helped knead it more effectively. The only other changes are that I used full-fat sour cream, not low fat, and I did not use vital wheat gluten. I'm looking forward to turkey sandwiches tomorrow.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.

[S_Wirth]

This is in an email this morning (11/24/2017):

Vanilla Price Rollback. There's still a world
Vanilla Shortage going on. This time last
year we had what we hoped would be our last price increase before supply caught up
with demand and prices began to fall. No such luck. It looks like we will have to do
at least one more increase, and December 5th will be the day. Sorry. But until then,
as part of our Black Pepper Friday celebration, we are rolling back to the
pre-increase price from last year. This is a very-very good deal! Stock up for
holiday baking and holiday giving now. It might be a long wait before the price is
this good again.

• This topic was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by S_Wirth.

[Mike Nolan]

We'll have 6 for supper tonight, our older son and his family are here, plus a family friend. (We think the last time he was here for Thanksgiving was around 1996.)

We'll be having:

Relish tray
Olive tray (one of our guests is allergic to olives, so we keep them separate)
Turkey and gravy
2 kinds of stuffing (bread cubes and GF cornbread)
Mashed potatoes
Dreaded Green Bean Casserole
Roasted Brussels Sprouts
Cranberry Sauce, two kinds (fresh and canned)
Apple Pie (currently in the oven)

It'll be in the 60's here today, so I'm doing the turkey on the outdoor gas rotisserie/grill, that always makes for the juiciest turkey.

[chocomouse]

It's just the two of us this year, too, after 30 years of serving about 30 guests! I'm roasting a turkey breast, and have Pepperidge Farm dressing (in the blue bag!! Herbed!! the ONLY kind to have!) and added celery and onion. We have mashed buttercup squash and baked potatoes from the garden. I've never done a breast before, and don't know if I'll get enough drippings for gravy, but will try, so I've also bought a jar of Heinze gravy. I'll have cranberry sauce out of a can, and my husband will have pecan pie. This is about half the items I usually make No cheeseball, rolls, cole slaw, fruit salad, yams, apple or raspberry pie, or cream pie and it feels wonderful, so relaxed. I had major surgery last Thursday and am so thankful to be home with my husband! Life is good.