[aaronatthedoublef]

I also get it. I want a working kitchen and my wife wants a show kitchen. I want everything to hand and she wants everything hidden. We rented a house that had an "appliance garage" which Kate loved. But it made the coffeemaker - something we use multiple times a day - almost unusable. I would have sheet pans out on metal shelving where I could store them immediately after washing (without drying).

And to Mike's point, we invariably end up entertaining in the kitchen. I remember an outdoor Halloween fire pit pizza party we had early in COVID times. We wanted everyone to stay outside because of COVID. We had a nice fire going with pizza and s'more stuff setup on tables. Everyone still ended up in the kitchen, standing around the island. And fortunately no one became sick...

[aaronatthedoublef]

Mike you're up early! I mixed up a batch o ciabatta. I may use some for pizza again tonight.

[aaronatthedoublef]

I had some very old biscuit dough to use and some leftover cinnamon sugar from an attempt at churros - not sure how to keep the oil at the right temp. So I cut biscuits and sprinkled cinnamon sugar on them. Thumbs up from the kids. Kate is on a bucket list trip so she missed them.

The churro recipe said to cook them at 375 but every other doughnut recipe I have says 365. And of course keeping the oil at a constant temp is a challenge.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Thanks Mike. Semolina is interesting. The BRM stuff I have used is like fine corn meal in form. I just put 200g into my pizza dough and will see if it makes any difference. I like it better than bread flour for keeping dough from sticking. I think this weekend I will make regular pizza, biscuit pizza, and ciabatta pizza.

I like the white wheat because it is mellower than the red wheat. I don't know that the softness makes a difference.

The scoring video was interesting. I can sympathize with not scoring deep enough. It's scary.

I wonder if shape affects taste. Looks do. Escoffier said "first we taste with the eye."

[aaronatthedoublef]

I haven't made it through the scoring video but it looks interesting. I like the floured vs unfloured tops.

I usually wait longer before cutting but I really wanted to try it. The first time I met my in-laws they stayed with me because I had more room than Kate. I made a fresh loaf of bread and left it cooling while I went to work. They cut it and squished it almost flat. I guess I should always make some rolls out along with the bread!

The BRM is organic and the Durakota is not so that may account for the price difference. Organic flour is about twice as expensive per pound here. Most of the bakeries use it but I don't notice a difference. The podcast I sent a link to the other day talked about micro plastics in non-organic food but those things are carried with the wind so unless your organics are grown inside they'll have the same problem.

I have BRM semolina from durum wheat and durum flour? I see them both.

[aaronatthedoublef]

I LOVED Wheat Montana. Cool place. But there was no way I could pack flour to bring home. I suppose I could order some. Again, it's hard to tell what is what and what will match (or improve on) what I'm using. I almost wish we had standard names and terms like the EU.

There is a nice, small mill about two hours from me but they no nothing about baking. They decided to start a mill after reading an ingredient list I think but they really do not know much about flour. Nice, but expensive.

I made my sourdough today. Really nice snap on the crust. One was shaped pretty well. The, not so much. They both need to be tighter. I need to make this more often and in larger volumes and start giving it away. I cut the time down from 2.5 days to 12 hours to tame the sour. It's a much milder taste. It's good to know I can make this either way.

The cut load is a little squished. Not sure if that was from lack of proofing (it definitely rose quite a bit) or it wasn't quite done cooling when I cut it.

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[aaronatthedoublef]

Thanks Mike. I appreciate that. And I get the mixing of different wheats and holding wheat back to try for consistency. I have a buddy who worked in IT for Pepsi and he used to talk about the huge vats of orange juice (I think Pepsi owns or owned Tropicana) to try and keep the taste consistent not just for a year but over 10 years.

When I was looking at Mark Bittman's cookbook he uses "hard" and "soft" to signify higher gluten flours like bread and higher or softer flours like cake (he does not mention pastry). I've only heard hard and soft in terms of wheat and never read it used like Mr. Bittman does.

And speaking of hard and soft wheat I like KAB's soft white wheat mostly for the flavor but it is crazy expensive here. I can buy a hard white wheat from Central Milling for less even with shipping. Is what give KAB's a mellower flavor the fact that it is white, not red or that it is soft and not hard like their red whole wheat?

[aaronatthedoublef]

I made ciabatta dough an used it for pizza. Thumbs up from both Kate and Violet. I tried to take it out of the pan for the last of the bake and made an awful mess but that did not slow anyone down from eating it. It was definitely over-proofed which didn't help. I'll try again either next week or the week after.

CWC, I've had a number of really solid professional bakers tell me that I can use AP or bread flour interchangeably. I haven't used AP in a few decades at this point subbing in bread flour. But then again I know bakers who won't use KAB's bread flour to sub for Sir Galahad even though they are supposed to be from the same line. So who knows...

I need a good source on flour that will guide me through terms like "high extraction" and "strong" and the like.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Thanks. I looked at some more recipes and he has a few that use a tea towel for the first rise but most are in the mixing bowl. Lahey really wants his bread to be accessible. I like his cookbook as much for the story as for the recipes. He went to Italy to study sculpting and came back a baker.

The thing I don't like is while he considers the cost of pots and pans and bakers he recommends he does not consider storage.

[aaronatthedoublef]

One more note - Lahey's loaves don't take any longer, they just take less fussing. At Uncle Matt's I'd start with an autolyze which was 1-2 hours. Then mix everything together. Then stretch and fold three or four times at 30 minute intervals. Then preliminary shaping and first rise, then final shaping and second rise which was overnight in the walk-in. Someone would come in at 3 am, take the overnight out and let it come to temp then put it on the peels, slash it, and put it in the oven.

So except for the ciabatta all Matt's loaves take about 24 hours from start to finish.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Mike, do you cook your apple pie filling before you freeze it? Does it break down the apples at all and change the texture?

What does everyone use in their apple pie filling? So far I use cinnamon and some sugar. Sometime I add ginger.

Lahey does not call for raising dough on a towel in his book. First rise is always in the bowl for 12-18 hours. I think this is probably easier for most people and, as Mike says, the water is absorbed into the flour, some probably evaporates off, and it is easier to handle.

I did my first raise in a greased baking bag in a measured dough bucket. Second rise for Lahey is "in a warm, dry place" covered with a towel. I put it on a floured cutting board and covered it with plastic wrap and a tea towel over that.

This will be good for rolls and I may try it for pizza too.

I'm not a big Bittman fan. Someone gave me his "How To Cook Everything" and I still prefer the "Joy of Cooking"

[aaronatthedoublef]

Pictures of my ciabatta. You can see the one I started to round has a huge cavity. I should have either done a real round or shaped it back like the other one. Violet gave taste a thumbs up. Kate hasn't tried it yet.

I did not do this in a clay baker like the book suggests. I baked it right on the stone and spritzed water into the oven. I don't have Nolan-nater Steamer yet.

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[aaronatthedoublef]

Joan, I'm interested in your one layer cake. What pan did you bake it in.

I made ciabatta. I used the Sullivan Street recipe. It is the wettest dough I've ever made - about 88%. Still handles really nicely and requires little shaping so that was easy. Still baking now.

If I like it I may make another batch for pizza night. What people emphasis about Jim Lahey is no-knead but his really point is a low-fuss method without lots of equipment and stretching and multiple shaping.

He does, however use lots of pots because his method uses really wet dough without all the stretching. I'm going to try some more recipes.

[aaronatthedoublef]

You make galette sound easy! It looks great. My recipes make it sound so complicated. Or maybe it is the French name. I wonder if my wife would like it as an alternative to pie. Kate does not like pies. Could be done for custard pies. What if you lightly baked the custard just enough to set so it wouldn't run out then put it in the crust and baked it all to finish.

Thanks for the tips on grilling.

Anyone have recommendations on an induction cook top? And will porcelain coated cast iron work on it? I know the cast iron part is good I just don't know if the porcelain gets in the way.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Congrats Mike. It is a good article. How does the oven door not block the tubing?

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