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  • #11457
    Mike Nolan
    Keymaster

      I don't bake bread in a bread pan very often, we tend to prefer free-form loaves (like Vienna bread), but when I do, I let it cool for at least 10 minutes before turning it out, then I place it on a cooling rack, but not on its side.

      Anything I bake in muffin or mini-muffin pan generally has to come out of the pan quickly, or it sticks.

      #11446
      BakerAunt
      Participant

        This morning, I baked Oatmeal Crackers (Hafrakex)--an Icelandic recipe from Beatrice Ojakangas' The Great Scandinavian Baking Book (p. 63). I've tried this recipe once before, early in my cracker baking experiments, and I was going to link the thread, but after searching, I realized that my discussion of it was likely on the KAF Baking Circle and so has dissipated into the electronic void. 🙁 Indeed, I have a note on the recipe that I first baked them on February 4, 2016, and it was in April of that year that KAF announced the shutdown.

        What I recall from my previous attempt is that they were not crispy, and that neither my husband nor I cared for the 2 tsp. of crushed anise seed. I had substituted buttermilk for regular milk, and I adjusted the baking powder and baking soda accordingly. I also recall that I did not have my pastry wands at the time, and so had some difficulty getting them rolled evenly.

        On this attempt at the recipe, I again made the buttermilk substitution, as well as the baking powder-baking soda adjustment. (I know that I did that correctly, because Cass confirmed it.) I deleted the anise, and I cut the sugar from 1/4 cup to 2 Tbs. I baked them for the maximum 12 minutes--turning the baking sheets half-way through (baked one at a time). When I take them out of the oven, I slide them off the parchment onto the hot cookie sheet and allow them to cool down on it.

        The finished product seems to be more chewy than crispy, with a nice mild taste (grains are oats, medium rye flour, and regular flour), with a hint of sweetness. They are puffy in spots, as the instructions do not say to dock the dough.

        What I would like to know: Are Hafrakex supposed to be chewy or crispy? The recipe just says to bake until "golden." I tried googling it, but I'm just getting all this Pinterest stuff. I wish that she had said what the texture is supposed to be. Maybe it should be more a cookie than a cracker?

        According to Beatrice Ojakangas, all Scandinavian countries have some form of Oatmeal Crackers. I looked at two other recipes--an Oatmeal Flatbread (pp. 107-108) and a Swedish Oatmeal Cracker (pp. 115-116) in Bernard Clayton's Complete Book of Small Breads. Both have a lot more butter (and the second has a butter-shortening mix) of 3/4 cups as opposed to 1/4 Cup butter in the Hafrakex recipe, and these other recipes say that the resulting product is crisp--I am guessing because of the amount of fat. Clayton's first recipe does not dock the dough, but the second one does. He also cut the sugar in the second recipe from 1/2 cup to 3 Tbs.

        I have tried googling Oatmeal crispbread, but I keep running into the same two or three recipes posted under different sites.

        #11445
        Mike Nolan
        Keymaster

          Yeah, the fact that there are links to buy the books is sort of a hint that the page is mostly a marketing ploy.

          I've bought 3 books lately, the Pfeiffer baking book, the CIA textbook for cooks and a book by CIA on healthy cooking for home cooks (which is still in transit.)

          #11443
          aaronatthedoublef
          Participant

            I have a 6 quart KA and while the motor could handle this it would over flow the dough hook (don't know about the spirals). It really depends on the motor size more than the size of the bowl and for a while KA was shipping different size mixers without stepping up the motor.

            If you're looking for restaurant mixers you can usually find decent ones used. Restaurants go out of business so often and they usually sell their gear at a discount. There used to be special auctions but now most of this stuff is auctioned on ebay according to my bankruptcy lawyer.

            #11439
            aaronatthedoublef
            Participant

              I love Ottolenghi's cookbooks. They are great reads in addition to having some fantastic recipes.

              We have two and while they were gifts they would have been worth the price just for the pictures and stories. He likes lots of ingredients, usually in the form of spices.

              I have had a crush on Dorie Greenspan for years. I have a chocolate cookbook the she wrote with Pierre Herme' that I used to use quite a bit but not so much recently (although I've a rekindled interest in pate choux). I also have the first cookbook she wrote for herself which is a fun read but nothing earth shattering in terms of original recipes.

              #11438
              BakerAunt
              Participant

                That is interesting about people's washing technique on USA pans. I've always washed mine with hot water and Dawn dish soap, then dried them well--sometimes putting them in to a still-warm oven. I've always greased the pan with Crisco when I've baked yeast breads. When I bake bar cookies, I've taken to lining the pans with parchment so that I can lift the cooled cookies out, then cut them without damaging the pan. (Plastic cutters only go so far if you want a nice clean cut.)

                I did notice that with the new finish on Nordic Ware Bundt pans, the company advises you not to let the pans soak very long, as it will damage the finish. I was pleased at how well the pan grease allowed for a quick clean up; I always had issues getting the fine spots cleaned out when I used Baker's Joy.

                #11427
                Mike Nolan
                Keymaster

                  My wife thinks Baker's Joy leaves a bitter taste on the surface of the cake.

                  The Pfeiffer (French Pastry School) book uses a butter/flour mixture to grease the pan for cakes, 3 tablespoons of European style butter to 4 teaspoons of pastry flour. I may have to try that for cakes, the KAF pan grease sometimes seems a bit heavy on the tongue on cakes, though not a bitter one.

                  When I make Texas Chocolate Sheet Cake I grease the pan with butter and coat it with cocoa instead of flour.

                  I do miss Mrs. Cindy, and I still have a few of her huge Meyer lemons in the freezer. Sometimes I wonder if her tree survived the Houston flooding.

                  #11425
                  BakerAunt
                  Participant

                    This afternoon, I baked the Brown Sugar Sour Cream Pound Cake from the KAF site. It's a favorite that I have baked before, and we will have it with fresh strawberries mixed with sugar and drizzled on a slice. I made two changes in the recipe: I cut the salt from 1 tsp. to 1/2 tsp. (With the sour cream, I figure it will not be missed.) I also substituted in 1/2 Cup whole wheat pastry flour for 1/2 cup of the KAF flour. I used the Bundt Vintage Star pan (10 cups). As it is a deeper rather than a wider Bundt pan, I baked the cake for the full 60 minutes.

                    With this cake I used the "grease" for the first time. I used 1/2 cup each of Crisco, Pillsbury unbleached flour, and canola oil. I used my immersion blender to blend it in the tall cup container that came with the blender. It mixed up very nicely. I used a silicone pastry brush to coat the pan; think of it as a paint brush and paint. I have stored the remainder in a container with a tight lid. (I have a lot left, as I intended, so that I can use it for other baking projects.) The cake baked nicely and released beautifully. I did not have the overbrowning that seems to happen with the Baker's Joy spray I've been using. The grease is also very inexpensive to make, and it allows me to reduce waste by never buying those spray cans again.

                    Thanks to S. Wirth who first wrote about the grease on the old Baking Circle. Thanks also to Mrs. Cindy who wrote about it with evangelistic fervor in a memorable thread from the second Baking Circle that now likely exists only in my head.

                    • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                    • This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by BakerAunt. Reason: comma error
                    #11424
                    BakerAunt
                    Participant

                      For dinner tonight, I'm making soup, mostly on the wood stove--a good recipe for a cold day that has had intermittent snow. I started by sautéing a package of ground turkey in a bit of olive oil, then added some chopped onion and celery, then sliced mushrooms. I peeled, then diced a butternut squash and added it. I had a container of about 6 cups turkey stock from the freezer. I used the Bob's Red Mill Vegi-Soup mixture of lentils, split green peas, and split yellow peas with barley (1 1/3 cups). I added an additional 1/3 cup pearl barley. I seasoned with 1 tsp. rubbed sage. I moved the covered pot to the wood stove at this point, and it should be ready in an hour. It will go nicely with the cheese crackers I baked yesterday.

                      • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                      • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                      #11417
                      RiversideLen
                      Participant

                        What I get out of it is, kosher salt is more pure, 99.83 percent sodium chloride v 95 - 97 percent (is that significant?) and that it is affordable. Not sure I understand his objections.

                        addendum, In reading the comments on that article I see that the author owns an artisan salt company. Alright, I get it now.

                        • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by RiversideLen.
                        #11413
                        BakerAunt
                        Participant

                          Thanks, Mike and Wonky.

                          Bernard Clayton does not give weights--no one did back then. I'll list the ingredients:

                          2 1/2 Cups water
                          1/3 nonfat dry milk (I'll probably replace with a cup of buttermilk, and reduce water to 1 1/2 Cups)
                          1/4 Cup molasses
                          1 Tbs. salt
                          1/2 Cup wheat germ
                          1/2 Cup buckwheat flour
                          2 pkgs. yeast
                          2 Tbs. shortening (I'll probably use butter)
                          1 Cup rye flour
                          3 Cups whole wheat flour
                          1 to 1 1/2 Cups bread or AP flour.

                          My mixer is listed at 1000 Watts. It does have an automatic shut-off, but I've never had it do so. I've done some three loaves recipes in it: Grandma A's Ranch Hand Bread (with about 60% whole wheat and additional flax meal) and Marilyn's Oatmeal Bread (KAF) with 2 cups whole wheat flour substituted.

                          I usually proof the yeast, mix the liquid ingredients, and then mix in the whole grains with the paddle. I do a rest period of 15-20 minutes before switching to the dough hook and adding the white flour with the salt. I adopted that technique after making the Grandma A's bread, and it seems to help the mixer incorporate all the flour more easily, and it gives the whole grains a chance to hydrate, so that I do not add too much additional flour.

                          I have found that when making bread dough with my mixer, I initially need to stop it and use the dough scraper to turn the dough over to make sure all the flour gets incorporated, but that does not seem unusual to me.

                          Bernard Clayton adds the salt with the yeast mixture. I usually hold it back and add it in with whatever white flour I'm using. I'll probably do that here.

                          I'll likely try this recipe, which makes two loaves, on Friday or Saturday, by which time we should be finishing up the last loaf I baked.

                          • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                          • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                          #11409
                          Mike Nolan
                          Keymaster

                            What's the total weight of the dough?

                            I'm not sure when KA started making the lift-bowl mixers, but I would think a 6 quart bowl with a spiral blade should be able to handle about 80 ounces of dough, or about 5 pounds. (The motor torque capacity is the key, and that's not always easy to figure out from the specs, that's one thing I remember from my electrical engineering coursework nearly 50 years ago.)

                            I find my 45 year old 4.5 quart mixer strains at about 60 ounces, and I have to be careful when making the Clonmel Kitchen recipe, which uses 32 ounces of flour, because if I don't do it right I get flour all over the counter. I've made a Challah recipe that was larger than that, but it was a really soft dough.

                            Above that, I'd look at other brands. I've seen some 10 or 12 quart tabletop mixers available from restaurant supply houses that are in the $750 - $1000 range and use a standard 120V outlet, though possibly 15-20 amps, and there's the $700 Ankarsrum, which some sources say can handle up to 15 pounds of dough.

                            The general rule of thumb that I remember was that a 1 HP motor will have an average load of 16 amps and a peak load of 1.25 times that or 20 amps. I think any device that draws over 15 amps is recommended to have its own circuit.

                            #11405
                            wonky
                            Participant

                              BakerAunt...I would absolutely knead that dough in my KA Pro. I may however, stop the machine half way through the kneading process, and let the machine have a cool down period.

                              Ever since I burned out my last KA (my fault), I have become very paranoid, even tho this new KA is a much more powerful tool. In fact, I have used those gel packs, that you might put on a sprain ever since. I use the one that has two flaps and is divided in the middle. I just lay it over the top of the machine with one flap on each side. Depending how long I am kneading, like when I make tangzhong bread, I may change out the pack with a fresh one from the freezer. I have no knowledge of your machine however, and I am not sure if this process would work for you.

                              Your bread sounds wonderful. Let us know how it turns out.

                              BakerAunt
                              Participant

                                I've spent part of this drizzly day paging through Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads. I found a recipe that I would like to try, Dark Grains Bread, in the Blended Grain Breads chapter (223-225). He says of this bread--which has wheat germ, buckwheat flour, rye flour, and whole wheat flour, along with some bread flour--"It must be kneaded by hand, being too heavy for a dough hook or food processor."

                                The book was published in 1987. I'm thinking that 31 years ago, no home mixer could handle such a dense dough, but is that still true today? We now have the modern spiral kneaders that have replaced the former dough hooks. We also have more powerful mixers. My mixer is the 7-quart Cuisinart. I am thinking of trying this recipe with the mixer. I'd do the initial mix that creates the "batter-like" dough using the flat paddle. I'd then switch to the kneading spiral for the bread flour.

                                Any thoughts on that?

                                • This topic was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                                #11402
                                BakerAunt
                                Participant

                                  This morning I'm baking the Whole Wheat Sourdough Cheese Crackers (recipe on this site) from the double recipe of dough I made up last week. With my baking production of various kind of crackers, we have stopped buying them at the grocery store.

                                  • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
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