[Mike Nolan]

Ike tended to embellish his stories over time, the fact that he had his dates off by a few months isn't terribly persuasive.

Back when I was living in Chicago in the 70's, I knew one of the editors and business manager of Chicago Magazine (he was a fellow chess player), and even pitched him on the idea of a 'casual dining' food column for the magazine to complement the fine dining one. We decided to move to Nebraska before he could get the OK for the column, which did show up in the magazine a year or two later.

There was a lengthy story in the magazine on Chicago pizza around 1977, as I recall it divided Chicago pizza into 5 styles (I reviewed an early draft and I thought 7 was more accurate.) It was more a 'state of the pie' article than a historical treatise, though it did delve into the question of whether Nancy's invented stuffed pizza or the original Giordano's did. (My vote would have been for Nancy's.)

I'll have to ask my son what recipe he uses for his Italian beef, when he was taking it to his friend's now-closed restaurant for slicing (the restaurant served Italian beef), the owner told him his recipe was pretty good. I think he does it in an Instant Pot. I've made the Jeff Mauro recipe from scratch several times, it was pretty good but probably would have been much better if I could have sliced it thinner.

I tried the Serious Eats idea of buying pre-sliced meat, I think it has potential, but the real challenge with it is that the deli counters here only have roast beef that has been seasoned with garlic, so my wife either has to cut off the edges (it is probably a rub that doesn't get very far in) or eat something else.

If my wife sticks with her new food regime, with 2 servings of protein at each meal, I may buy a slicer, my son bought a "Chefs Choice" slicer on Amazon recently.

[Mike Nolan]

My wife doesn't like chicken skin, either, but if I take the skin off before cooking, the meat gets dry, so I leave it on but take it off before serving. I like chicken skin that has been fried and is crispy, but I'm not fond of it if it is chewy.

[Mike Nolan]

We had sandwiches tonight on all that lovely fresh bread. My wife is on a meal plan where she has to eat 2 servings of proteins, 1 or 2 vegetables, 1 carb and 1 fat for every meal. The carb can be bread or fruit.

Finding enough proteins and veggies is the challenge for some meals, especially breakfast.

[Mike Nolan]

An ounce of chicken skin has 3 grams of saturated fat, but 8 grams of unsaturated fat (the good kind.)

And as noted, chicken cooks differently if you take the skin off, it dries out.

[Mike Nolan]

Today I'm making a batch of sandwich rolls using the recipe that came with the Chicago Metallic pan, plus a batch of semolina bread, still tinkering around with the semolina-AP ratio a bit.

[Mike Nolan]

BA, the recipe you posted is essentially the same as the one that was on the cardboard liner of the pan I have, though the instructions might be slightly different.

I think I will make a batch of these tomorrow.

[Mike Nolan]

The rolls I made the other day make good sandwich rolls, though I think I'll keep looking for better options for Italian Beef.

[Mike Nolan]

As I noted in your recipe (thanks!), the rolls traditionally used in Chicago hold up well to being drenched in jus (though most Chicagoans call it a gravy.) The recipe I posted a link to earlier was said to hold up well when wet, but the batch I made of them yesterday didn't do well, which may be at least partially my fault.

I think I tried the Chicago Metallic pan recipe in an earlier experiment with Italian beef, but I don't remember how well it handled being soaked. I seem to recall that beef recipe was pretty good, but thin slicing is a key component to true Italian beef.

[Mike Nolan]

If there are any butchers in Lincoln willing to slice a roast after you've cooked it, I'm not aware of them. Grocery store butchers aren't very versatile, and sometimes not all that well trained or knowledgeable about meat.

We do have two newer more-or-less full-service butcher shops, I may ask them the next time I'm there. (That's where I went to buy 40 pounds of chicken backs, for example.) They're both on the other end of town, so it isn't somewhere we go weekly.

My son in Pittsburgh has been making Italian beef in his instant pot. He took it to a friend's restaurant a couple of times to have him slice it, but the restaurant closed during the pandemic. Since then he has bought his own slicer, next time I'm in Pittsburgh maybe I can get him to make it for us.

As to the rolls, as several writers on the subject of Italian beef have noted, the Gonnella or Turano rolls that are traditionally used in Chicago hold up to being drenched well. Not sure what their secret is, I think they're softer than most French rolls, though.

I have made this recipe a few times, without the garlic, though.
Italian Beef

[Mike Nolan]

I don't remember a separate King Arthur recipe, the one I use is the one that was on the cardboard sheet with the pan. If there was a second recipe sheet, I've either thrown it away or have it stuck in a stack of recipes I haven't made. How different was it?

[Mike Nolan]

The Serious Eats recipe I give a C, it has some of the characteristics of good Italian Beef but is missing something, I'll have to play with it, maybe tweaking the spices or cooking the pre-sliced meat in the jus longer. The meat itself was OK, it had the right amount of 'bite' to it, so it was sliced to the right thickness, and I nailed the roasted peppers. A different beef stock recipe might help too. Mine has a lot of tomatoes in it.

The Gonnella-like roll recipe was disappointing, I give it a D+, I'd go lower but I think I contributed to the issues by over-proofing it. It fell apart when it got wet, but it looked and tasted a lot like a sourdough bread, and IMHO sourdoughs tend to fall apart when wet. I could see using this recipe for other things, though, it has a nice caramelized taste to it.

I may try the original King Arthur recipe that came with the sandwich roll pan, I haven't made it in a while but as I recall it was pretty good, made fairly decent pizza bread, too.

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[Mike Nolan]

I used this recipe it made 4 rolls:

Gonnella-style rolls for Italian Beef

The recipe didn't specify what kind of flour, so I used KA bread flour. I wound up adding quite a bit more flour than the recipe called for to get a dough that wasn't really sticky. I used the Chicago Metallic sandwich roll pan that King Arthur used to sell to bake them. I should have greased the pan, but I was able to get the rolls off without too much damage to them.

I'm going to make the Italian Beef tonight, with some roasted sweet peppers, we'll see how the rolls stand up to being soaked in broth.

Here's the Serious Eats article on making Italian Beef using meat from the deli:
Italian Beef at home

[Mike Nolan]

Sounds like almost as much work as cutting a rutabaga. If I ever have to do that again, I'm going to use a bandsaw.

[Mike Nolan]

We had artichokes for dinner tonight, plus a little potato salad.

[Mike Nolan]

Well, the rolls stuck to the pan, which I didn't grease, and I think I over-proofed them a little, too, as they're not very tall, but they're tasty and I think I'll try them with the Italian Beef tomorrow, to see if they hold up when soggy.

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