[aaronatthedoublef]

Thanks BA. I'll look at the hearth pans. I don't usually make more than a couple loaves either. I am trying to buy things from a local cooking store now. It's a two or three store chain that started in Sydney, Australia and they are a very nice family. They are right in the high-rent center of town so they are a bit more spendy than I like but I want the store to survive so I buy from them when I can. I start there and then go other places if the prices are too dear.

And, Mike, I just use the camera on my phone. I'll need to see if I can dial back the resolution. We do have some other cameras in the house but I am not certain I am allowed to use them. 😉

[aaronatthedoublef]

Thanks. I'll look into deli loaf pans but I will also try a bit more stretching and folding to tighten it up. I'm guessing this is what we used to make banana bread in the bakery. I had a dozen large bread pans all attached. They were heavy when filled!

The taste this morning was more noticeable and a bit stronger than last night so maybe it needs to sit longer after I take it out of the oven. I finished it at about 4:00 yesterday and cut into it around 8:00.

Also, this had a sponge that sat for about eight hours but maybe that needs to sit longer too.

[aaronatthedoublef]

It appears cannot upload my picture as it is way to big. I'll have to work on shrinking the file size.

It was a little lighter than I want but I have lots of advice on how to remedy that.

Also, it was wider and flatter than I would have liked. My dough felt a little soft when I shaped it so perhaps it needed a bit more flour. Or maybe I needed to make the loaf tighter. Or both?

I also wanted it a little more sour and rye tasting. So I need to up the percentage of rye flour.

Thanks for the help. To quote Stephen Sondheim, "I took myself one step, I won't stop with two!"

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by aaronatthedoublef.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Growing up grilled cheese was a slice of American cheese (usually Kraft) on a slice of white bread (usually Burny Brothers for those who know and remember them) under the broiler. And that was grilled cheese for many years until we learned to do some cooking ourselves and learned that people would make a sandwich and cook it in a pan on the stove.

So to me, that has always been a form of grilled cheese. But Mike's distinctions between grilled cheese and pizza bread and pizza seem good.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by aaronatthedoublef.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Mike, Len,

Thanks for the tips. I would never have thought rye bread need to bake to 200. I would have guessed much less so I really appreciate it.

Also, the light-ish colored rye flour is making a darker dough than I would have thought. I also used first clear flour because I have it and this, as Mike points out, makes it a bit darker than bread flour would have. I'll try to post a picture when I am done.

Also, should I slash the top?

[aaronatthedoublef]

What's a good internal temp for a well-baked loaf of rye bread?

Thanks

[aaronatthedoublef]

What a great article. I have my mom's 1953 edition that does, indeed, describe cleaning and skinning a squirrel! This was not the one she used daily which was a bunch of pages (the covers vanished long ago) barely held together by tape.

I had a 1973 edition as well that I lost in a bad breakup.

The other cookbook my mom lived by was The Settlement Cookbook which was a staple of Midwestern Jewish ladies.

[aaronatthedoublef]

I made scones for Mother's Day.

I just made the sponge for my first attempt at rye bread. This is also my first attempt at a sponge. So far so good. I aspire to Len-quality rye breads. Looking at the flour I have, I think for looks I made need a darker flour although this smells pretty good.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Thanks Mike.

I haven't tested baguettes but I have tested it with my pizza dough which is pretty simple as it's just flour, water, salt, yeast, and a pinch of sugar. My wife and kids like the dough best when it is between 24 and 48 hours. I once had dough that was only 12 hours old and my wife commented that it tasted flat.The only thing I'd done differently was shorten the rise. If I let it go fro three or more days the family eats it but they are not as happy.

My English muffins are the same way. The recipe I have came from a bread class where we made a bunch of breads in a three hour class so rise times had to be short. I now let it sit at least overnight and the difference is noticeable even to my 13-year old vacuum cleaner who refers to himself as a "speed taster".

[aaronatthedoublef]

Mike,

I forgot to check the restaurant supply stores. I probably could have asked a couple of bakeries I know to sell me flour too. But I don't want a 50 lb bag just yet. I had a coupon from KAF so I used that and bought some from them.

Thanks

[aaronatthedoublef]

Kid,

Thanks. As always I appreciate your wisdom and, normally I would just make the Marcy Goldman rye bread. She is my gold standard for Jewish baking. And it has, as you recommend, an overnight starter but isn't too fussy.

But I am coming up with a recipe for some people who want to open a deli. Again, that is a call for simplicity but I want to 1) give them a choice and 2) give them something that is distinctive and different from what they can find any place else. But the choice will be up to them.

Mike I will look up the Tartine Bakery book. Thanks

[aaronatthedoublef]

Kid, Mike, Thanks.

I am working to make a Jewish deli rye. I have three recipes I am looking at and going from simplest to most complex there is:

Jim Lahey's which does not use a starter or an altus but is mixed and then sits for 18-24 hours at room temperature. So it will ferment and this will add some nice flavor. Mr. Lahey does not refer to his rye as

Then Marcy Goldman's from Jewish Holiday Baking has a bread with no altus but a starter.

Last is George Greenstein from his book Secrets of a Jewish Baker. This recipe calls for a sour which is a starter that is built over 48 hours (at least) as well as a half cup of altus (this is optional but recommended). Mr. Greenstein also calls for real clear flour and the only place I've found this retail is KAF.

I've checked with Whole Foods and Hartford Baking Company (HBC makes the best bread in the area and where I apprenticed shaping and making breads) and neither uses an altus but both use a starter.

I will try those three and see which hits. Based on experience at HBC the people around here do not like very sour bread like the kind found in San Francisco and Seattle.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Excellent. Thanks

[aaronatthedoublef]

Mike, Bronx, I just read something on autolysis here that recommends adding the yeast with the flour and the water. The authors concern is that mixing the yeast and the salt in to the water/flour mixture could result in the salt killing the yeast.

I made some pizza dough Wednesday and let the water/flour/yeast sit for 20 minutes before adding salt, some more flour, and kneading. We're making pizza tonight so we'll see if anyone notices any difference.

But does autolyzing make any difference when making bread with a starter or sour? What about a bread that sits and ferments for 18-24 hours (like Jim Lahey's no-knead rye bread)?

[aaronatthedoublef]

I'm almost at the point where I will switch back to regular granulated salt for baking. The pastry chefs/bakers I've worked for used kosher salt but as Mike has pointed out (and I think Kid Pizza too) sometimes that doesn't completely dissolve in baked goods.

Any reason to not add salt to my wet ingredients instead of my dry?

And Mike is spot on about salting. I stopped watching Top Chef because of their craziness about proper salting. Here we are making food for several hundred people with widely varying palates and the food is supposed to be seasoned to everyone's individual tastes.

Most baking books I have suggest things to do with vanilla beans after you've used them for their primary purpose. Another one is to put them in sugar and make vanilla sugar.

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