It’s that time of year again…

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  • #13903
    aaronatthedoublef
    Participant

      It's pie time for me and as much as I'd planned on making test pies before Thanksgiving it just didn't happen.

      Any way... I think I may try to change the fat in my pie dough this year - sub out some butter for shortening and sub out some of the heavy cream for water.

      I remember Mike's advice not to blind bake my crust on sheet pans (at least I think that was Mike) but any recommendations for pie pans? I have Pyrex and ceramic and metal tins are not too expensive.

      I'm trying to avoid last year's shrinkage.

      Thanks

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      #13905
      Mike Nolan
      Keymaster

        I don't specifically remember offering that advice, I think the most important part of blind baking is to make sure you have plenty of pie beans.

        I'm not sure what we're doing for either Thanksgiving or Christmas this year, we've told the kids that we're not making the trip to Pittsburgh this year. My younger son, the one who lives in CA, has Zeldathon (an online fundraiser) in Erie PA right after Christmas. My older son was talking about possibly coming here for Thanksgiving, but I haven't heard if that's a go or not. We may invite my wife's sister to come over for Christmas dinner.

        #13906
        RiversideLen
        Participant

          I am no expert on pie or pie crusts, but what I have heard is shrinking is caused by stretching the dough. Roll it out to the size you need and plate it without stretching.

          #13909
          Mike Nolan
          Keymaster

            This article says never use high heat for blind baking:
            Blind Baking

            #13911
            BakerAunt
            Participant

              I've been using an adaptation of my Buttermilk Pie Crust for all my pies. I'm not sure if I've changed the recipe that I posted. It works well for blind baking, and I've used it for pumpkin pie.

              For a single crust, I bake in an Emile Henry 9-inch ceramic pie plate (not one with a ruffled edge--what the heck were they thinking?!), which is a deep dish, I use 1 2/3 cup pastry flour and 1/3 cup whole wheat pastry flour, 1 1/2 Tbs. sugar, 1/2 tsp. salt, 2/3 cup cold butter, and 1/3 cup buttermilk. I mix the dry ingredients, and cut in the butter. I then add the liquid all at once, and use a pastry fork, then a bowl scraper to bring it together.

              I used to make the recipe with half butter and half Crisco. Then, one day, I was distracted by my husband and accidentally used all butter for the fat. The crust was wonderful, and I've never looked back.

              After the dough has a couple of hours in the refrigerator, I roll it out to 12-inches. I roll on parchment paper, with a wide piece of saran over the top, and I use pie wands. To transfer it to the pie plate, I flip it over and peel off the parchment, put my hand under the saran, and move the dough to the pie plate and carefully fit it in (saran still on top). I carefully pull off the saran once the dough is fit into the pie dish, and I fold over the edges around the rim and make a fluted edge. (The extra dough will help it hold its shape. I set the plastic over it, then refrigerate it for 40 minutes, and then for 20 minutes, I freeze it--if I have a freezer in which it will fit. Sometimes if it is cold enough outside, it sits there!

              I line the pie shell with a double thickness of foil, or I have some commercial coffee filters, and I use one of those. I fill with beans--ideally, fill the entire pie shell. (Beans can be used over and over again.) DO NOT USE CERAMIC OR METAL PIE WEIGHTS. These get too hot. I bake for 21 minutes at 375F on the middle rack, or until the dough sides are light, dry, and firm. I then remove the foil, carefully, and return the pie shell to the oven.

              If the intended filling for the pie requires no baking, bake another 15-20 min. If the filling will need 20 minutes or less, bake an additional 7 minutes. If the filling will need more than 20 minutes, bake for 14 minutes.

              OK, that is what I do. The article that Mike posted, with a suggested baking temperature of 350F is interesting, and if someone tries it, I'd be interested in knowing how it works.

              I do want to bake a pumpkin pie this year, and right not, I'd love to do an apple one. However, I'm dismayed when I calculate the saturated fat in the crust, and with only my husband and I to eat it, it's a problem. I thought about trying an oil crust, but I don't think that I would find it satisfactory.

              There is a chance that we may be "under construction" by Thanksgiving. Our new contractor says he is on schedule to start in later November. We meet with him later this week to see when that might be. We have a smaller, functioning kitchen in the apt. over the garage, where we will be living during the renovation, so we will have Thanksgiving dinner, but it will be on the everyday dishes.

              • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
              #13920
              skeptic7
              Participant

                I have used oil crusts with reasonable success on pies. Then there is yeasted crusts which could be made with oil instead of butter. The texture is different but it would be better than no pie.

                #13941
                aaronatthedoublef
                Participant

                  Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'm still trying to figure out what I will do and maybe I'll have a chance to make some trial crusts between now and then. Usually I make both a pumpkin and a pecan pie but I found a recipe that is pumpkin with a praline topping in Cook's Illustrated so I may make that as we're having fewer people this year.

                  I like BA's adding in some WW pastry flour. I've used powdered buttermilk for years because it seems to soften the crust.

                  Usually I use the foil pie tins but I think this year I will use the Pyrex ones we have.

                  And I'll lower the blind bake temps. Most of the recipes I've seen are at 350 but I'll drop that down.

                  And I'll use tons of pie weights!

                  I like the idea of a yeast crust. I'll have to try that. I did accidentally use pie dough to make pizza once. It was fragile but it tasted great.

                  Thanks again

                  #13948
                  Mike Nolan
                  Keymaster

                    I really like the Norpro non-stick 9" metal pie pans I have, they are one of the first non-stick products I've had that really lives up to the name.

                    After the pie is cool, just give it a twist and it slides right out of the pie pan. Sometimes I just put it on a plate, which makes it a lot easier to slice, but other times I've put it in a different pie pan. If I'm sending a pie to my wife's office or taking it to someone, I transfer it to a disposable aluminum pie pan.

                    I think it may just be the two of us for Thanksgiving, maybe we'll invite a friend over. (My older son and family are coming here for Christmas, haven't heard back from the younger one yet, but he's got Zeldathon in Erie PA right after Christmas, and he's kind of been absorbed into the Google world.)

                    I probably won't buy a whole turkey or even a turkey breast, largely because nearly all of them have been saturated with a brine solution and have way too much sodium in them.

                    Looking at the NorBest site, their 'all natural' whole turkey has 80 grams of sodium in a 4 ounce serving. Their 'basted' one has 320 grams of sodium in a 4 ounce serving. Guess which one is easier to find in stores?

                    I've been buying turkey tenders (from the breast), which are NOT brined. I think 2 or 3 turkey tenders might be enough for 3 people for Thanksgiving, and they'll cook a whole lot faster, too. I'll look around for some frozen turkey necks/giblets to use for gravy. (I'm not sure I've got any turkey stock left in the freezer, I think I lost what I had when the freezer failed a few weeks back.)

                    #13949
                    aaronatthedoublef
                    Participant

                      I like the look of the Norpro pie pan. It has handles! I have one of their griddles and like your pie pan it really is nonstick. I may have to try one of those.

                      Around here we can find brined, un-brined, organic brined and un-brined, and kosher and organic kosher, as well as fresh and frozen turkeys. Kosher are always brined.

                      #13950
                      Mike Nolan
                      Keymaster

                        I'm not all that fond of handles on pie pans, they get in the way when you're trying to do a nice ruffled edge.

                        #14016
                        BakerAunt
                        Participant

                          I saw this article reviewing different kinds of pie pans and thought it might be timely here. I would disagree with their assertion that one pie pan should do it all. I like to use ceramic for my pumpkin pie and streusel-topped apple pie, but I use a flat metal pan that has a wide rim to catch juices when I bake a blueberry or peach pie. I'm not sure that rimmed pie plate is even made anymore. My mother had them, and years ago, I bought two at a hardware store when I was in graduate school (one of those independent, carries a lot, in the neighborhood stores that no longer exist). I found another one at a garage sale and snatched it up. In addition to catching spills, the rim also supports the crimped crust.

                          Underneath the pie, I use a round pan, the size of a pizza pan, that has a 4-inch or so hole in the center. It was left in this house when I bought it, and it is great for catching spills and allowing the center of the pie to get direct heat through the hole. I bought a non-stick version from the old Chefs Catalog.

                          I'm also a proponent, when baking a pumpkin pie, of cooking the filling--without the eggs--until starting to bubble, then putting a bit of the filling in a small bowl, whisking in an egg, then whisking it into the off-the-burner filling. Whisk in the rest of the eggs, one by one, then fill the warm blind-baked crust. This technique, adapted from Cooks' Illustrated, helps the filling bake evenly in much less time.

                          https://www.foodandwine.com/cooking-techniques/baking/best-pie-dish-review?hid=0527ce5bc5a38694da803c7d5550ccbaa89b02bf&did=304070-20181115&utm_campaign=faw-the-dish_newsletter&utm_source=foodandwine.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=111518&cid=304070&mid=16239218061

                          • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                          • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                          • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                          • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by BakerAunt.
                          #14027
                          chocomouse
                          Participant

                            OMG They took a picture of the inside of my cabinet, the one next to the stove!! LOL Stained old pan and all. I too have a precarious stacked assortment of pie plates. I seem to have a different type of pie plate to use for each particular type of pie. Baker Aunt, I also have one of those large round pans with a hole in the center, and I ALWAYS bake every pie on it. It has saved me the chore of cleaning my oven several times. Actually, I have two of them, one came from my mother, the other from my mother-in-law.

                            #14064
                            aaronatthedoublef
                            Participant

                              Thanks for all the pie crust/blind baking advice. I'm going to try my Pyrex this year since we're not going any place and if I have time I may buy and try a metal pie tin.

                              Not sure if I'll find one of BA's round, drip-catchers. I'm going to make my pie dough today which should allow me to blind bake Wednesday.

                              Oh, and thanks for the tip about par-cooking the pumpkin pie filling before baking. Even with foil on my crust edge it always ends up overbaked before the filling is fully cooked!

                              #14068
                              BakerAunt
                              Participant

                                Aaron--Bed, Bath and Beyond has the Chicago Metalic pie drip catcher--non-stick--that I bought. Vermont Country store carries a different one. Norpro also makes one.

                                #14134
                                aaronatthedoublef
                                Participant

                                  Thanks. Went to Bed, Bath, and Beyond and it took me three people before I found someone who knew what a pie plate was! 🙂 All they had were Pyrex pie plates. I'll start earlier next year.

                                  My pie crusts are blind baked. I followed the aluminum on bottom and top AND low (350) and slow. I chilled the crusted in the pans before baking for an hour. I used 50/50 pastry and bread flour (I don't have AP) with some powdered buttermilk thrown in. I used all butter and my liquid was heavy cream.

                                  I did realize one thing. I can add less liquid if I just dampen the mixture, lightly mix it, then put it onto plastic wrap and wrap it up and "utz it together" as my mom used to say

                                  I still had shrinkage. Oh well... I used one aluminum pie pan and one Pyrex. The aluminum had better results than the Pyrex.

                                  I will try this again (not today) and I will sub out heavy cream for water or vodka (always wanted to try the vodka) and see if that helps. If I still have shrinkage I'll try subbing out some butter for some shortening or margarine.

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