Kaiser Rolls

This topic has 15 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by RiversideLen.

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October 30, 2019 at 10:45 am #18884
BakerAunt
Participant
I was going through my baking gadgets and found a plastic Jack-o-lantern Kaiser roll stamp that I bought from KAF years ago. I remember trying it once, probably with this recipe:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/kaiser-rolls-recipe

What I remember is that I did not get the design, except faintly on one roll. I'm thinking about trying it again (and subbing in some white whole wheat flour for some of the AP). Has anyone had success with that recipe using a stamp? I read the comments, and most people had some issues with stamp design (using a regular Kaiser roll stamp) NOT being visible after baking. It would be nice to have these for Halloween if the design would show up.

If you have a suggestion about other Kaiser roll recipes instead of the KAF one that would also be helpful. I'm going to check some of my baking books. After all, it's a rainy cold day, so baking is on my radar for today.

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- This topic was modified 5 years ago by BakerAunt.
October 30, 2019 at 12:16 pm #18885
S_Wirth
Participant
Several BCers used this recipe and always liked the rolls:

Kaiser Broetchen by Twin2

Twin2 was from Germany.
October 30, 2019 at 12:26 pm #18888
BakerAunt
Participant
Thanks, S. Wirth. The recipe looks good, although I don't have any old dough available to use. In looking online, I noted that Fleischmann's has a recipe that like this one uses bread flour.
October 30, 2019 at 1:13 pm #18889
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
I've never used a Kaiser roll stamp, I have made Kaiser rolls using the fold method a number of times, it always takes me 4 or 5 rolls before I get the knack down again, so I usually make a few, throw them back in the bowl and do them again.

I think you don't want to use too strong of a flour for Kaiser rolls, I looked on the BBGA site and the Kaiser roll recipe there is 55% high extraction flour (or sifted whole wheat) and 45% 'bread flour' with a note that says 11.5 to 11.7% protein. The rest of the formula is 61% water, 2% salt, 1% yeast, 4% egg, 2.8% sugar and 2.8% oil. Use 90 grams (3.17 ounces) of dough for each roll and let them rest for 20 minutes before using the stamp. The way this recipe gets the seeds to stick is to moisten the top with a wet towel then dip the roll in seeds.

For those who don't want to do the baker's math, here's the recipe sized for 12 rolls:

341 grams high extraction/sifted whole wheat flour
279 grams AP flour (11.7% protein)
379 grams water
12.4 grams salt
6.2 grams instant dry yeast
24.8 grams egg
17.4 grams sugar
17.4 grams vegetable oil

Not sure about baking temp/time, the recipe calls for 20 minutes at 400 degrees in a convection oven with steam.
October 30, 2019 at 9:24 pm #18905
BakerAunt
Participant
Thanks for finding the recipe and doing the math, Mike. I've printed it for reference.

I did some googling, and King Arthur AP flour has a protein content of 11.7, so I'd use that instead of bread flour. I looked at whole wheat. I have KAF white whole wheat (13% protein) and Bob's Red Mill Whole Wheat, which both appear to have 13% protein.

I'm not going to try that Jack-o-lantern stamp. I compared it to two Kaiser stamps that I have (one heavy plastic and one acrylic), and it's a lot smaller. I think starting with the regular one might be a better plan. I will let you know when I bake these and how they turn out.
October 30, 2019 at 9:32 pm #18906
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
I think sifting whole wheat flour would remove the biggest pieces of bran and germ. I've done that a few times myself, I think it makes for a slightly less 'toothy' bread. It would also lower the protein content a little.

I've actually run some of my freshly milled flour through a fairly fine screen mesh (at least 25 wires to the inch, I've also got one that is 40 wires to the inch), it isn't quite the same as having bolting screens, but it is the best I can do at this time. (The biggest problem is that it creates a LOT of dust.)
October 31, 2019 at 8:08 am #18912
BakerAunt
Participant
Then there is whole wheat pastry flour, but Bob's Red Mill is 8-11%. KAF whole wheat pastry flour, which I don't have, has 8% protein.

I might use the white whole wheat, since it tends to have a finer grind.
October 31, 2019 at 10:49 am #18919
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
Pastry flour is made from a soft wheat, that's why it is so much lower in protein.

As I understand it, white wheat has both soft and hard varieties, though I think the soft varieties are less common. I also think the soft varieties of white wheat aren't quite as soft as the ones used for pastry flour and the hard ones aren't quite as hard as the hardest of red wheat varieties.

My experiences with dough shaping lead me to think that if the flour is too strong, the dough fights the shaping. I think that would include cutting with a Kaiser roll stamp.
October 31, 2019 at 11:06 am #18921
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
I thought it was interesting that the BBGA Kaiser roll formula uses less than 3 1/4 ounces of dough per roll. The Kaiser rolls I see in the stores and the ones they use in fast food restaurants tend to be HUGE, they've got to be 4 or 5 ounces after baking!

When I make hamburger buns, I tend to use 2 to 2 1/2 ounces per bun, as I prefer smaller burgers (not quite sliders but close).
October 31, 2019 at 11:17 am #18924
BakerAunt
Participant
We prefer smaller buns and rolls as well. I use metric for dividing them for shaping--much easier to do the math!--and usually have a bun that is around 70 grams. The last time we grilled hamburgers--summer of 2018!--I used Ellen's (Moomie's) recipe and made them a bit larger.
November 2, 2019 at 11:20 pm #18981
RiversideLen
Participant
I've used the Kaiser roll stamp. The trick is you have to press it down far enough so it holds the shape and yet not too far so that the sections would separate. You need to find the Goldilocks zone, it takes some practice. I haven't used it in quite some time. Some day I'd like to try to shape them the old fashioned way.
November 3, 2019 at 12:00 am #18982
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
There used to be a video out on Youtube of an older baker folding Kaiser rolls by hand. (Not the knot method.) I can't find it today but I'll keep looking.

In the mean time, here's another video that shows hand folding of Kaiser rolls:
Folding Kaiser Rolls
November 3, 2019 at 6:43 am #18986
BakerAunt
Participant
Len--Did you let them rise with the printed side down, then flip them over to bake? KAF's recipe says to do so, but I looked at some videos online, and the prevailing wisdom was that if using a stamp, there is no need to do the flipping.
November 3, 2019 at 8:03 am #18989
S_Wirth
Participant
When I mentioned Twin2's Kaiser roll recipe, I forgot to say she owned her own bakery and worked there for many long years. When she got older and could not continue the pace, she sold the bakery to a person she thought would make a go of it. Sadly, that was not the case...the longtime customers of the bakery just never were pleased with the new owner's offerings and the bakery did not survive. Twin2 was heart broken as her many wonderful offerings were always sold out and she had so many standing orders all those many years.
November 3, 2019 at 11:49 am #18991
BakerAunt
Participant
Thanks for telling us, S. Wirth. I would have liked going to Twin2's bakery and buying her products.
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