Kitchen appliances

[Pyewacket]

So when we bought this house, the stove in it was all wonky - the gas oven wouldn't light reliably, had 2 previous attempts at repair that didn't stick, and it was pretty old to boot.

So we bought a new gas stove to replace it. It's one of those with the cast iron grill on the whole top of the stove, which people seemed to think is Really Great, so that's what I picked out.

MAN I HATE THAT THING!

There is nowhere to put a spoon down even for 1 second. Every time I cook on it, I have to clean the ENTIRE surface and all three grills - and at least 2 grills at any time are going to be too hot to handle, so you have to remember to do it later, after it's cooled down.

While the extra-strong burner on the left front is great for cooking, the way it is placed, the flame licks out to the side so far that if you had anything even remotely flammable sitting on the counter to the left, it would go up in smoke before you realized it was even endangered. And I NEVER use the ginormous grill thing that takes up the center of the cooktop because I simply do not have a grill that large (something over 20" long).

Plus, they have gotten rid of ALL mechanical dials and switches and the oven light doesn't come on when you open the door - you have to find the membrane key on the back of the stove to turn it on (instead of a nice easy to find rocker switch). In order to start the oven, you can't just turn a dial = you have to find and press the "bake" membrane key (as opposed to the "Clean Oven" key or the "Broil" key), then set the temp using +/- keys, then find the key labeled "Start". All of these placed at the back of the stove so you can't really read them without leaning forward - which you'd better not do when a burner is on. Too far for the reading part of your bifocals, but too close for the distance part, LOL!

If you forget to push "start", it just resets and you have to do it all over again. Then if you want to adjust the temp for any reason - you have to find the key labeled "Cancel" or "stop" (I forget exactly how it's labeled) and start all over again. You can't just bump it up or down a few degrees.

Actually there are still dials for the burners - but when you go to light a burner, they ALL click to light - which means I am no longer sure WHICH burner I'm trying to light because they all click. I'm used to having that clicking sound as an added clue to which burner I'm actually lighting.

They then proceeded to mount these dials on the FRONT of the stove so any kid can wander by and turn them on - without necessarily actually LIGHTING anything. And you can catch yourself on one and accidentally turn it because they're right at a height and position where that can happen - say as you lean forward trying to read the lettering for the oven controls on the BACK of the stove, LOL!

This thing is almost entirely electronic. There is no way I would even consider using the self-cleaning function - because that is known to greatly shorten the life of the electronics on the stove. You didn't have these problems when the controls were mechanical. Plus - electronic clock, but no battery backup for it so when the power glitches out for even a second (which it does here regularly because - high winds, overhead power lines) the clock loses the time. So now the clock is never correct because I got tired of having to reset it every time I turn around.

The oven racks for some bizarre reason are super sticky, almost like they'd already been through a cleaning cycle that took the slick coating off. And they won't come out very far so you end up having to reach into the oven cavity to get at anything more than halfway back on the rack.

The one good thing about this stove is that at least it doesn't lose heat so badly that the stovetop gets burning hot every time you use the oven. It doesn't retain heat as well as the (older, same brand) stove at my son's house - but it's better than that horrible horrible stove we ended up with when we were in that apartment when my son was still working on his doctorate.

So - hate that thing. When I get wherever I'm going, whenever I get there (given I do not want to spend the rest of my life living in a desert) I hope it has a trash stove so I can get an induction cooktop - which has lots of safety features including NOT GETTING HOT, it only heats the pan, and autoshutting off in case you forget to turn it off soon enough and things start to burn, and which will never never ever set the kitchen towel on the counter next to it on fire. And then I'll get a gas oven. Preferably one with as few electronic controls as possible.

ON THE BRIGHTER SIDE - Since I haven't been able to find my rice cooker since June last year now, I finally broke down and bought myself a new one. And since I ALREADY actually have TWO "normal" rice cookers packed in boxes somewhere, one small and one larger, I broke ALL the way down and got a Zo "Micom" fuzzy logic rice cooker.

IT'S AWESOME! It's the first rice cooker I've had in 30 years that I can actually turn ALL the way off! And it hardly lets out any steam at all, let alone boiling over the way a lot of the newer cookers do because they cook the rice too fast, which causes boil-over and a big mess. Unless you soak the rice for 30 mins or so before you start it up - in which case the rice takes just as long (if not longer) to cook at these new higher temps as it did with the older cookers that cooked for a longer time at lower temps. Cooking faster at higher temps also tends to make the texture of the rice not all it should be.

So - honestly - I think most of the advantage of this cooker has nothing to do with electronics and "fuzzy logic" but mostly to do with cooking it more slowly at lower temps the way the old cookers did lo these many moons ago.

Plus I can cook dahl (lentils) in it, and it will supposedly even bake cakes.

And did I mention I CAN TURN IT OFF!!! Also, once having turned it off, it still keeps the rice hot for a long time because it is so well insulated - which also means it never gets too hot to touch.

I still love my Zo bread maker, but now I have a new Zo to love!

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[BakerAunt]

Hello, Pyewacket, aka Zen, aka Kitchen Barbarian,

It is good to see you posting again.

I will be outfitting the kitchen in our new home once we move here this summer. I'll be replacing the 1970s' avocado green electric stove, so I am interested in hearing about what stoves and ovens people like best. What brand was this stove that clearly was not user tested by anyone who cooks and bakes? After reading about your experiences, I will pay close attention to how the controls are set up and how well they work.

I had already decided that I do not want any kind of grill on top because I would not use it. I know that I want gas burners, but I want an electric oven. I do not want to buy a dual fuel stove, however, because I figure that the oven will go out first, and then I'd be stuck with half an appliance. I'm thinking that I want a separate gas cooktop, and then we can install the oven below it. I'm working with a very small space, so I don't think that a separate wall oven is a possibility.

[Mike Nolan]

I'm still happy with our 20 year old 48" dual fuel range, which is a good thing, because replacing it would be a major challenge due to placement. We'd probably have to pull the island out to be able to get the range out the door. (The thing must weigh about 700 pounds, too.)

If we ever have to replace the ceramic cooktop in the island I'd probably replace it with an induction system.

My son's kitchen has a gas cooktop with dual electric wall ovens, but I find the ovens have too many settings I don't understand.

[BakerAunt]

I have a dual fuel stove in our current home. It's a Thermador that I bought in 2001. However, when it developed a stuck relay four years ago, the central panel could not be replaced because Thermador only supports its ovens for ten years. I would have been out of luck if my repair guy had not known about a place in Illinois that repairs central panels. He pulled it out, I shipped it to them, and they repaired it and shipped it back. I love my stove, but at the price Thermador charges, I expect more durability and product support.

My husband and I both like cooking on gas burners, so I could just get a gas stove. Sigh. Dual fuels are very expensive, and the oven is what would likely fail first, especially with the volume of baking that I do.

[RiversideLen]

One of the things I like about electric burners is I can set the heat on the minimum setting, for example for cooking rice, and I don't have to worry about the flame going out. I also like that on a smoothtop there are no burner wells for dirt or grease to hide. What I don't like it i have to be careful about boil overs.

One thing to keep in mind is that features that one person hates might be loved by someone else. I suggest you make a list of the things you like about what you currently have, what you wish you had and what you don't want. It might be a struggle to find the prefect stove/oven/cooktop but it's good to have a roadmap.

I bought a new electric oven last year. It has 2 self clean options. The steam clean option is relatively low heat, what you do is pour a cup of water on the oven floor and then start the cycle, after a short while it's done and then you wipe it up, it's for helping clean up grease spills on the oven floor. So even if you have reservations about the regular self clean cycle, you might like the short steam clean cycle. The other thing I especially like is that the bottom heating element is hidden, so the oven floor is free and clear. It makes wiping up so much easier. My oven also has a convection cycle, 2 actually, one for baking which makes the temp adjustment for you, and then one for roasting. Convection roasting is the one I love.

[cwcdesign]

Baker Aunt, over 30 years I had 2 gas stoves. The first one was a budget purchase. I really loved my second one - I think it was a Maytag and it had two ovens, a smaller one on top and the bottom one was big enough for anything. I was using that oven when I really started baking and I've had trouble adjusting to every electric oven I've used since. Just thought this information might be helpful.

[Italiancook]

Mike, before you buy induction, you may want to check the manufacturer's website for the model you want, and read online reviews about induction stovetops. You may recall that many weeks ago, I posted that I was considering induction. After reading your response, I picked out a specific model. My husband checked the manufacturer's website and discovered it was discontinued. I didn't want to buy something for which there might not be parts far down the road.

My husband also checked online reviews of induction in general. He said some people were reporting that using their induction appliance caused their circuit breakers to trip. I don't know how many reports of this he read, but Googling might bring you to these. Of course, manufacturers make improvements based on consumer experience, so by the time you want induction, this may not be an issue.

My husband also said his research indicated that the strength of the induction varied between burners.

[Bronx]

I too don't like that my stove's clock doesn't have a battery backup. I reset mine after a power outage because the blinking clock get annoying after a while, and I use the delayed start sometimes.

My oven has a convection feature. I only used it once but whatever I was baking didn't turn out as expected so I never used it again. I don't even remember what I was baking, only that it didn't turn out right.

Bronx

[Mike Nolan]

I use my big oven's convection feature for fruit pies for the first 20 minutes, then I turn it down and turn it to conventional bake for the rest of the baking period.

I've tried it once or twice with breads, wasn't happy with the result, maybe I just need to experiment more?

[RiversideLen]

I've never tried the convection for baking. My oven instructions says the convection baking mode is useful for baking simultaneously on two different racks, for example cookies. I doubt it would be good for breads or muffins. But I usually use the convection roasting mode for meats or roasted vegs/potatoes. A shallow roasting pan is recommended so to expose as much of the food surface to the air. A deep roasting pan would mitigate the effects of the convection. I wouldn't use it for a casserole either unless the primary objective is to brown the top. But it's great for meats, you get a nice crispy exterior and a juicy interior.

[BakerAunt]

I tried the convection feature on mine for doing two pizzas--years ago when I was still using pizza pans. The two were on different racks and did not cook evenly. I decided at that point to stick with the regular oven mode.

[Italiancook]

I decided timing the food in a convection oven was too much trouble. I couldn't predict when the food would be done, and I didn't want to stand by the oven testing the food. I only use the regular oven feature.

[BakerAunt]

My husband has been reminding me that we need to sit down with graph paper and figure out the new layout for the Indiana kitchen so that we can talk with the contractor when we are up, briefly, at the end of May. I have thus spent far too much time on the internet today trying to figure out dual-fuel ranges.

Question: I've always preferred a free-standing range to a slide-in, in part because I think that they are better insulated. Am I off base on this?

I've been looking at Frigidaire. The website shows only two dual-fuel ranges, one a 30-inch slide-in and the other a 40-inch free-standing range. The latter is pricy, but it would hold 3 cake layers....
However, the oven controls are on the back. The slide-in has the controls in front, but it has no backsplash.

I tried to locate reviews of other brands without much success. I did see that a dual-fuel Kitchen Aid was recommended by Consumer Reports, but I cannot figure out why, since the oven was only rated very good and another site also commented that it bakes unevenly. Perhaps they were so enthralled with the gas burners that they overlooked it?

I looked at Thermador, but they list 0 service people within 100 miles of where we would be living, which is odd because they have a number of retailers. Of course, even the lowest level dual-fuel Thermador is expensive these days.

I looked at one oven site and had to laugh--it was all about how the range looked in terms of the décor, and there was nothing about how it cooks and bakes.

I've also been looking at control locations and I prefer the controls in front.
I really would like a backsplash on the stove.

At this point, I shall go drown my sorrows by baking cookies.

[Mike Nolan]

Sears/Kenmore was selling a dual-fuel range at one point, I don't know who really made it or what the price point was.

These days I think I'd lean in the direction of a dual wall oven and an induction cooktop.

[Mike Nolan]

You might want to see if there's a PC 'home design' or 'kitchen design' program, the one I used 22 years ago when we were designing our house was a big help. That was Broderbund 3D Home Architect.

It did 3D renderings, including detailed sketches of the kitchen appliances and cabinets, that were pretty realistic, I felt I could have walked through our entire house blindfolded before they had even dug the foundation.

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