[BakerAunt]

Cwcdesign--I should have been more specific in my comments. I was not referring to the recipe developers for the KAF Whole Grain Baking book. I was referring to the current KAF staff developing whole grain recipes on their site. For example, I cannot figure out why they would add vanilla to those barley muffins I made on Monday.

Skeptic7: Baking soda often is used to offset some of the flavor of the buttermilk in quick breads and muffins, in addition to its use to offset the acidity. When I switch to buttermilk, I usually substitute 1/4 tsp. baking soda for a teaspoon of baking powder. As Cass told us, from Bakewise, baking soda has 4x the rising power of baking powder.

[BakerAunt]

Luvpyrpom--I have found that Antilope's Vienna bread does seem to work better with somewhat less flour, but then I substitute in some whole wheat flour. In fact, I have played around with that recipe so much that I can not actually recall what the original is like. I think that BevM has baked it, so maybe she will have some thoughts on it.

[BakerAunt]

Italiancook--I don't heat the buttermilk (it separates if you do), and I have not had any problems. It will get warmed up enough from the mixer or the bread machine. I do use active yeast, so if a recipe calls for all milk, I use 1/4 of the liquid as water to proof the yeast and use buttermilk for the rest. (I use active dry yeast, and I'm always more comfortable seeing it foam.) I do not primarily taste the buttermilk.

[BakerAunt]

Skeptic7--Ah! I almost always add buttermilk to my breads, particularly those that are whole grain. I started using buttermilk a lot after S. Wirth told us that it helps the keeping qualities of baked goods. That's interesting that it also mellows the flavor.

[BakerAunt]

For Friday dinner, I made my Rosemary Maple-Glazed Chicken with cut up sweet potatoes on a sheet pan. Peas from the freezer were the side dish.

[BakerAunt]

Blanche: For oat flour, measure out the same amount of rolled oats, then run them through the food processor. It will give you the same amount of oat flour. Thus 1 cup oat flour = 1 cup rolled oats. Make it as you need it, as oat flour can go bad more easily than rolled oats.

[BakerAunt]

Blanche--It takes a while to learn to navigate this site, and even then, we sometimes have to dig for items. The discussion is one of the posted comments in the What are You Baking the Week of January 7, 2018 thread. If you click on it and read through, you will find S. Wirth's comment.

Here is the link to one of the dough improvers:

Dough Enhancer #1 Bookbag by frick

And here is the second:

Dough Enhancer #2 Bookbag by frick

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

Mike--Have you looked at Stanley Ginsberg's The Rye Baker? I bought it this fall but have not yet gotten around to baking from it, in part because most of the recipes require a rye starter, and my husband is not that fond of rye bread. Also, sometimes it calls for more specialized ingredients than I can find easily. I have marked the Salty Rye Rolls as the one that I will attempt first because it does not require a rye starter and I have all the ingredients.

Baking for someone, like the professor from Germany, who knows good bread, should be a pleasure. We are getting ready to go on vacation to Florida for two weeks, and because I have become such a bread snob, I'm wondering what I'm going to eat after I run out of the baked goods I'm taking with us. 😮 I've been told that Publix grocery stores have pretty good bread. My husband and I will also make a trip to the National Bakery in Tarpon Springs, since he is very fond of their Greek cookies. (Those of you who were on the old KAF Baking site may recall my attempt to replicate them. I think that the thread is posted here.) We will try their bread also.

[BakerAunt]

I'm still exploring the KAF Whole Grain Baking book. I have repeatedly baked their Soft Barley cookies and their Dark and Dangerous Cinnamon Rolls--which are all whole wheat--as well as their Lemon Barley Scones and their Vanilla Pound Cake. Many of their recipes will use some AP or bread flour, but that is ok with me, as I do not need to banish white wheat flour from my diet. I also liked the Hazelnut Waffles I made on Sunday--once I found out what the missing liquid ingredient and its amount should be. The Lemon-Oat Squares were also very good. There are other recipes that I have marked favorably as well. Of course the Peach and Ginger Turnovers I tried baking this summer reduced me to tears, and I have a note that suggests the Gingered Oatmeal Muffins (p. 40) did not come out correctly (I vaguely recall disappointment), but most cookbooks will have some recipes that do not come out well for whatever reason. There are also some recipes that I read and am not excited to try, so I pass them over. On my "To Bake" list right now is the Cinnamon Spiral Bread (pp.252-254) and the Golden Raisin Hearth Bread (233-234).

Now that I'm retired, I have more time to experiment with new recipes. When I was working, I often needed a recipe where I knew how it would turn out because I did not have time to bake something else in its place.

[BakerAunt]

Although KAF has a very nice Whole Grain Baking book, I have always suspected that the recipe developers do not really like whole grains and/or expect that other people will not. They really want to cover up the flavor. I know that for some people whole wheat has a rather strong taste. I recall Wingboy from the KAF Baking Circle telling us that in taste tolerance he came in low on the bitterness scale, whether it was bread or beer, so some people are probably prone genetically to respond more negatively to whole wheat's assertiveness. (Another example is cilantro, which to some people tastes like soap.) Orange juice is, of course, one way of helping to tame it, as is using white whole wheat flour.

Why do we always assume that whole grain has to mean just whole wheat flour? My husband and I like whole wheat, but lately I've been discovering for myself that adding other whole grain flours can give a nice complexity, as in my experimentation with Antilope's basic recipe.

I have been using 1 tsp. of the Gold yeast with 1 1/4 tsp. of the regular yeast in that loaf. It started as a way of using the Gold yeast more, since I do not do that many sweet rolls or coffee cakes. However, I do get a somewhat higher rise with that combination.

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

Ah, so you tried this recipe this time:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/king-arthurs-100-whole-wheat-sandwich-bread-recipe

My first thoughts, and others will doubtless chime in: there is a lot of yeast (a Tablespoon) and a lot of sugar (5 Tbs. honey, molasses, or maple syrup). I wish that Cass (Kid Pizza) were posting; I'm sure that he would have some thoughts about that.

I don't know if you used the "Whole Grain Bread Improver." I've never used it. However, in this week's Baking Thread (Jan 7), S. Wirth provides a link to do-it-yourself whole grain bread improver, that is from Bookbag, a member of the original KAF Baking Circle. However, I'm thinking that an adjustment with the yeast and sugar might be the place to start.

Note: to post a link, when you are on the computer page for the KAF recipe, highlight the "address" in the top bar on your computer that shows the page. Press Control + C on your keyboard. That will copy the link. Then come to the Nebraska Kitchen page, go to where you will post, press Control + V on your keyboard, and it will paste the link into your post.

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

Today, I continued my experimentations with Antilope's Vienna bread, working off of the ingredient variation that I posted as a reply to Rascals about that recipe. I followed what I did in my 2 January experiment, but this time I further reduced the salt to 1 1/2 tsp. I also substituted in 1/2 cup of barley flour for that much AP flour (it's now down to 1 cup). I did add an additional Tablespoon of buttermilk, as the dough seemed a bit dry after the first 8 minutes of the cycle. I had not added the butter yet, so I was conservative. It made a softer dough than before, but still easy to handle. I again used the Emile Henry baker. I have a beautiful looking loaf. I will post an addendum here tomorrow once we have cut into it and I can comment on texture, as well as the whole wheat-rye-barley combination.

Addendum: The bread has a slightly chewy crust and a light interior crumb reminiscent of store-bought bread. The nice crust I've been getting on these breads is due to the Emile Henry long baker, which also keeps the top from overbrowning from the honey. I like the substitution of the 1/2 cup barley and may try increasing it to 3/4 cup next time. I do not detect any issues in texture or taste by the decrease in salt, although that may be why the bread is of a softer texture.

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by BakerAunt.
• This reply was modified 7 years ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

Italian Cook: Salt occurs naturally in lots of food. Of course, humans have gotten into the habit of adding to what is already there. We do need some salt, but most of us probably get enough from just basic foods without hitting the salt shaker.

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by BakerAunt.
• This reply was modified 7 years ago by BakerAunt.

[BakerAunt]

Most of us are salt junkies because so much of what we have been eating contains a lot of salt. I'm glad that we are exploring ways of cutting it back. When I made my roast yesterday, I sprinkled it with Tsardust seasoning from Penzey's, which was either a free sample or came in a gift someone gave me. We liked the flavor in stew. I looked at the ingredients, and on that one, the first listed is salt. Sigh. The roast did seem slightly salty to me; I also used 1 Tbs. Worcestershire sauce and 1 Tbs. tomato paste, so I know that those have salt. I did not add any salt. I will look at the ingredients on the Tsardust and see if I can emulate some of the flavors without the salt. I think that the cinnamon, which I would not think to use with a roast, is one of the flavors we are liking in it.

[BakerAunt]

Mike--my husband will not let me use a chuck roast because he sees the fat when we are at the grocery and vetoes buying that cut. I cannot seem to explain to him that the fat is necessary for the cooking process and it will "melt" away during cooking.

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