What are You Baking the Week of June 4, 2017?

[Mike Nolan]

Clear flour is quite a bit higher in protein content than AP flour, so one might expect that it is higher in gluten, but it is also higher in small pieces of bran and wheat germ, both of which have a negative impact on bread structure, and both may contribute non-gluten protein.

The usual explanation for bran impacting bread structure is that the sharp pieces of bran cut the gluten strands. I don't know if that has been microscopically confirmed.

I've not seen a specific explanation for why wheat germ would affect structure/rise, but I know from repeated experiments that adding wheat germ to a recipe causes it not to rise as much.

[BakerAunt]

One of my favorite rye breads, the KAF Nelson's Choice Rye Bread, which they modified and re-named Peasant Style Rye Bread (which is actually from Secrets of a Jewish Baker) adds 2 Tbs. of vital wheat gluten. That must be to compensate for the First Clear Flour's effect. I'd look at the original recipe in the cookbook, but it is already in the Midwest. I looked at my Limpa Bread recipe, and I also use vital wheat gluten, or sometimes potato flour in it.

I'm going to have to think about what I do when I use First Clear Flour. I actually had not planned to buy any more vital wheat gluten.

[Mike Nolan]

Next time I'm in the Pittsburgh area, I may see if I can get a 50 pound bag of clear flour at Stover & Company. $15.73 plus tax. (Having them ship it to Nebraska would cost a lot more.)

[aaronatthedoublef]

Cass, Mike, BA, Thanks. I appreciate the help and wisdom.

I did not know about patent flours so that is new. I can always use bread flour instead of clear since that is what the original recipe called for. I subbed in clear because reading Secrets of Jewish Baker he recommends clear. I also like the bran left in clear.

I should probably try using bread flour to see the difference in taste and texture.

Also, I made five loaves and only one - the two pound batard - had a blow out. I made three, one pound, round loaves that came out fine.

This is what KAF says about clear flour:

First clear flour is what remains after milling patent flour, giving it a darker color and higher mineral content. Traditionally, Jewish bakeries used first clear flour to bake their rye breads – the protein in first clear balances the lack of gluten in rye flour to give rye breads loftier rise and better chew.
Combine first clear flour with flours that typically produce denser loaves (like whole wheat, rye, or spelt). It'll improve the rise and final texture of your baked goods.

[KIDPIZZA]

BakerAunt wrote:

One of my favorite rye breads, the KAF Nelson’s Choice Rye Bread, which they modified and re-named Peasant Style Rye Bread (which is actually from Secrets of a Jewish Baker) adds 2 Tbs. of vital wheat gluten. That must be to compensate for the First Clear Flour’s effect. I’d look at the original recipe in the cookbook, but it is already in the Midwest. I looked at my Limpa Bread recipe, and I also use vital wheat gluten, or sometimes potato flour in it.

I’m going to have to think about what I do when I use First Clear Flour. I actually had not planned to buy any more vital wheat gluten.

BAKERAUNT:
Good morning. you have decided not to employ VITAL WHEAT GLUTEN when using first clear flour....very good idea. WHY????? I might as well complete my first time tutorial on first clear flour now. I have purposely have kept this info quiet like for years till now. Vital wheat gluten is first clear flour but a lower grade & darker in color, so when you employ both it is being redundant.

VWG is a lower grade article from the milling extraction particles of first clear flour. It is darker in color you could say we can describe it as second clear flour. A lower grade still, is used for livestock feed.

Today is two fer a penny day.... VWG works EFFECTIVELY when added to lower protein flour, ie, from cake flour thru AP flour & KAF-AP flour as well, do not use it for regular bread or hi~gluten flour because VWG protein is only effective protein
strength is from 13% to 15%... but & however, it's gluten strength is no stronger than bread flour (13%) this info also includes FIRST CLEAR FLOUR.... REGARDLESS WHO SAYS OTHERWISE.

I am finished now. I hope it finally will help a few in their understanding of rye bread baking, perhaps it should be read more than twice.

Oh yes I hope we remember who provides us with all of his baking science secrets free of charge.

YOU,ALL have a nice day.

~CASS / KIDPIZZA.

[BakerAunt]

Thanks, Cass. I continue to learn a lot from you. I'll now go back to my original plan not to buy any more vital wheat gluten. I had started leaving it out of the Grape Nuts bread and frankly did not notice any difference. When I bought some VWG from another vendor, I did not care for the flavor it gave my bread.

I have sometimes used some potato flour (or when I have it, potato water) in my Limpa Bread rather than the VWG.

Another thought for Aaron--are you kneading your rye bread the same way that you would knead your whole wheat bread--i.e., same mixer speed and same amount of time? Somewhere in my fuzzy mind, I seem to recall someone saying that rye bread should be kneaded gently but firmly and should be claylike.

I am going to have to try my Limpa bread again, but not until after our big move.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.

[Mike Nolan]

It's been so long since I used any vital wheat gluten that I don't even remember how far back. I still have some in the freezer. I found that since I mostly use KAF flours for breadmaking, that I just don't need to add any gluten. I also have lower protein flours on hand for things like cookies, biscuits and cakes.

As I recall, the nutrients label on the Bobs Red Mill VWG package said it was 85% protein. But it may be that not all the proteins remaining in VWG are the two gluten proteins.

I'm going to see if my wife can check out a copy of Posner & Hibbs, the primary textbook on wheat flour milling science, from the UNL library next week.

[BakerAunt]

The VWG I used was from Hogsdon Mills. It came from Walmart. I don't know if it was the brand or how it was stored along the way, but I threw it out.

[BakerAunt]

After a long afternoon of packing on Saturday, I headed for the kitchen for some baking therapy. I again baked the KAF Malted Milk Chocolate Hazelnut Tart, but this time, I used a slightly larger tart pan--an English one that I had found at T.J. Maxx, rather than the one that KAF sold for the recipe. The larger one (14 x 4 1/4) held all the filling, so it is the one that I will use. I also baked the KAF Irish Soda Bread. In both cases, I am working to use up specialty ingredients. The first recipe uses pastry flour and hazelnut meal, as well most of the rest of the Valrhona Milk Chocolate. The second uses some of the Irish Style Wholemeal flour, of which I seem to have rather a lot in my freezer. I made the Irish Soda Bread in two loaves in 5-inch pans, which I baked for 30 minutes, rather than in the 8 or 9-inch pans specified, so that I can freeze one.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by BakerAunt.

[Mike Nolan]

I made Vienna bread, but I probably didn't make them long enough when shaping them, they're plenty tall but they're so wide they probably won't fit in a toaster. One of the vendors at the farmer's market has elderberry jam, it's really good on that bread (the clonmel double crusty bread made with butter and shaped like Vienna bread.) Making that recipe reminds me that I haven't heard from Paddy L in a long time, hope she's doing OK.

I bought a nice tart/flan pan at a tag sale yesterday, I'll have to make flan some time soon.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Mike, Not sure about the caraway seeds either but in Jewish Deli Rye from Secrets of a Jewish Baker they also add the caraway seeds in the starter not when making the dough. Maybe, as you say, it absorbs some of the water. Maybe it flavors the sponge/starter which gives a stronger flavor in the final product.

BBGA being coastal-centric is fine for me as I am on the East Coast.

BA, I do not use my mixer for bread anymore. It's just too small for anything over four cups of flour (KA rated it for 10 cups), it overflows, and I have to play with it too much and the clean up is way too much. Also, when I was teaching the kids to make bread they all went home and asked their parents to buy a KA mixer. So for the next class I started to do it by hand and now I just have continued that.

The only thing I've used my KA mixer for in recent memory was making whipped cream.

So it is as consistent as I can make it doing it by hand.

[BakerAunt]

Aaron, I've only been using a mixer on my bread for the past five years or so. Wedding gift cards from friends let me buy a 7-qt. Cuisinart which does a nice job with bread, although if it ever develops mechanical problems, I'll probably have trouble getting it fixed. Before that, I also kneaded by hand, and that was when I heard that comment, but cannot recall if it was by someone at KAF or maybe Peter Rinehart, that rye bread should be kneaded gently but firmly--just as one would discipline a child. It certainly has a different feel from wheat breads, what I saw described as "clay-like." I made more rye bread before I got married, as my husband does not care for rye, which I love.

There are worse items than a Kitchen Aid stand mixer that kids can ask their parents to buy, 🙂 but I like your approach of letting people know that they can make good bread with basic tools and no mixer. I default to the mixer these days because it is less messy in this small kitchen.

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