Good roll for cheesesteak sandwiches?

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Good roll for cheesesteak sandwiches?
frick
I looked at the KAF recipe & it got pretty bad reviews. Not that I've ever eaten a Philly Cheesesteak, but I am curious about the roll. Does Mike's Stuffed Baguette (unstuffed) come close?
badge posted by: frick on September 09, 2014 at 5:57 pm in General discussions
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reply by: Mike Nolan on September 27, 2014 at 12:26 pm
Mike Nolan
I have not, since I make them in a pan that is designed to make five 12" rolls. I don't think making them shorter would affect the baking time much, though. I make hot dog buns all the time, and the baking time and temperature are about the same.
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I'm thinking I need to try a half-recipe of this roll, since five 12" rolls is more than the two of us would eat these days. My wife usually uses a half roll (or less) for a sandwich anyway.
#
These rolls make pretty good tuna melts and pizza bread.
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reply by: cwcdesign on September 27, 2014 at 11:22 am
cwcdesign
Hey Mike, question(s) about your hoagie roll recipe. Do you ever make them smaller than a foot long? Maybe 6 or 8" - would there be any changes to baking time? Since I don't have a bread machine, I'd be making them in the stand mixer - any difference in mixing directions?
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You can see that I'm still new to this when different directions intimidate me 🙂
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reply by: horses272 on September 18, 2014 at 7:34 am
horses272
Swirth, Thank- you for posting the hoagie roll recipe, I have been looking for awhile for a recipe like this!
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reply by: frick on September 17, 2014 at 8:05 pm
frick
Good to know. When I first began making yeast breads, back in the 70's, I soon found I wasn't one of those who loved kneading. At some point I bought the least costly KA for assistance. That was the only way I could cope with the oatmeal bread recipe I had found in Sunset. I don't even remember whether the oatmeal was soaked or not, but I remember the strange and messy part. The dough was mixed, all but for the oil, which was kneaded in last. To this day, I have no idea how that made a recipe work better. It wasn't easy, even with a dough hook. I don't plan on making cheesesteak sandwiches, and may cut the dough in squares or oblongs with the intent of using part of them for italian sausage sandwiches and part for crostini.
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reply by: cwcdesign on September 17, 2014 at 7:46 pm
cwcdesign
First of all frick, cheesesteak sandwiches are subs (hoagies, grinders, etc) so the rolls tend to be larger.
Next time I'll make 6 - they were a little smaller than a large sub roll - just the right size for my boys, but I still think a little smaller is the way to go - PJ mentioned in the blog post that you could make 6 instead.
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Another note about the recipe that we realized yesterday. There is olive oil in the bread which is fine, but PJ said the dough is so sticky that you should form them on an oiled surface with oiled or wet hands. I think I added too much oil to the outside of them making them taste a little oily and it may also have inhibited the rising? Anyway - a wet surface next time.
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reply by: frick on September 17, 2014 at 7:35 pm
frick
Carol, I just looked at the KAF recipe you cited and noticed it uses 4 cups of flour but makes only 5 rolls.. Aren't those awfully large rolls for a sandwich? They sound like ciabatta with a non-Italian name. After looking back at the recipe, it hardly differs from my sandwich bread recipe. KAF: 17 oz flour (mine 18.25); same amount of liquid and salt, less yeast. Olive oil 3/4 ounce more than my butter, no honey. I have to make these just to see how that difference comes out. My bread is light. The rolls should be also.
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Darn, I have the urge to start them now but it's way too late in the day.
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reply by: cwcdesign on September 15, 2014 at 8:22 am
cwcdesign
I made the no-knead rolls that kaf-sub-rius posted the link for yesterday. They were very good, soft inside with lots of flavor, a little chewy which we liked. They were a little bit flat (but still good inside) and I may have over proofed them or maybe a little too much water (based on comments in the thread). For someone who likes salt, I thought there was a little too much, so I'll cut back next time. Will definitely make them again.
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And, I took a recommendation from Pioneer Woman - I bought deli roast beef, shaved and heated for the meat - works really well, but she made a sauce out of white Velveeta and I made a cheddar sauce with cream and freshly grated cheddar.
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reply by: chiara on September 14, 2014 at 11:15 pm
chiara
We live in Penna close to Philly and am pleased that I can regularly find the fixings for cheese steaks in the grocery stores. That is, shaved beef, (oblong) club rolls, and provolone cheese. No cheese whiz for us and no sautéed onions. Just shaved beef topped with provolone cheese on a toasted club roll! Mmmmmmm!
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reply by: psycnrs1 on September 14, 2014 at 6:06 am
psycnrs1
Growing up outside of Philly I can tell you cheese whiz is a popular option on the sandwich. Not my choice but it is a staple. The sub rolls are water rolls shaped oblong not round. No egg or milk. KathyG
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reply by: frick on September 11, 2014 at 12:22 pm
frick
I mentioned Cheeze Whiz because in googling a recipe for cheese steak sandwiches, that turned up a time or two. Appalling.
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Of course I have a story relating to that. Once, in let us say the middle of my life, I went back to design school. Two years, year round, full time. So there was a party and I, in spite of finals, tending a family, a house and a yard, I made beautiful hors d'oeuvres. There on a tray adjacent to mine sat a package of ordinary crackers squirted with Cheese Whiz. Some people just have no taste at all.
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reply by: kaf-sub-rius on September 11, 2014 at 8:16 am
kaf-sub-rius
I've been to Geno's and a few of the other name places. Cheese Whiz is only one of the options. I had never had cheez whiz before I tried it on a cheese steak when I was about 25. It wasn't offensive. In fact, it tasted like very little.
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reply by: Rascals1 on September 11, 2014 at 12:22 am
Rascals1
Swirth hope you don't if I also copy these recipes they sound awsome. Thank you for posting them.
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reply by: Mike Nolan on September 10, 2014 at 10:45 pm
Mike Nolan
Outside of Philadelphia, most places making cheese steaks use something other than Cheese Whiz.
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reply by: frick on September 10, 2014 at 2:51 pm
frick
Wowsers, swirth, It looks like you've brought us up to date. I do need to start making a better roll. Whether I ever have a cheesesteak is beside the point since I'm not a big beef fan and I have looked askance at what some use as cheese. For those who know, is it really something like melted Velveta, or Cheeze Whiz? Not my thing.
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The roll is the whole point in my case. We can get decent Italian rolls locally, essentially tasteless, soft white interior with a thin crisp crust. Those are great for Italian sausage sandwiches and cold cuts. Don't most of us wish we could turn these out with abandon?
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reply by: swirth on September 10, 2014 at 12:34 pm
swirth
bryancar had a much loved recipe for years that many BCers loved using...it is not posted on the BC now so early this morning I searched his blog for the recipe...here is his Hoagie Rolls recipe and I'll also post another of his recipes:
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SATURDAY, MAY 07, 2005
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Hoagie Roll
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These rolls or bread make a total and complete sandwich for a barbeque. This is an adaptation and variation of the Bread Baker's Apprentice... written by Peter Rinehart... recipe for Italian bread. It’s a combination of the Italian bread recipe, which includes Paté Fermentée in lieu of the biga(*). It yields a delightful hoagie roll with a soft, golden topped crust. These rolls go very well with just about anything you want to put on them like roast beef, turkey, char-broiled Italian sausage, BLT, BBQ beef or pork, or ham and cheese.
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Dough Ingredients by Volume:
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2 ½ cups Unbleached, high gluten bread flour
1 2/3 tsp non-iodized salt
1 TBS sugar
1 tsp instant yeast
1 tsp diastatic barley malt powder
1 TBS olive oil
7-8 Ounces milk
1 Egg yolk
8 Oz Pate fermentee
Semolina flour or cornmeal for dusting
Stick butter
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Instructions:
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Paté Fermentée should be at room temperature.
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With a wooden spoon, stir together the flour, salt, sugar, yeast and barley malt powder in your largest mixer bowl. Add the olive oil, egg yolk, and milk. Mix until it forms a ball, adding flour and/or water according to need. Mix on medium speed with dough hooks until you get a dough that passes the ‘windowpane’ test, is slightly tacky and soft, but not too stiff. The dough should clear the sides and bottom of the bowl
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Knead for 10-minutes on floured counter, or 6-minutes in mixer bowl with dough hooks. Lightly oil a large bowl and transfer the dough to the bowl. Roll the dough in the bowl several times so it is coated with the oil. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap. Let it ferment/rise until double in size. Because of the small amount of yeast used, the rising will take about 3-4 hours. DO NOT increase the amount of yeast.
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Once doubled in size, add the 8-Oz of Paté Fermentée. Knead the Paté Fermentée into the raised dough, adding flour as necessary to get a silky, yet fairly stiff, flexible dough. Lightly dust with flour and return to bowl and let rise to double once again. This rising should take no more than 45-minutes.
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Divide into either four or six equal pieces, depending on how large you want the rolls. Let the pieces rest for 10 minutes. Roll and shape into hoagie shaped rolls - about 8” long by 4” wide by 3 inches thick (for 4-roll.) The roll ends should be blunted, not pointed so you have a rectangular shaped creation.
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Place the shaped rolls on a sheet pan that is lined with parchment paper, lightly oiled, and dusted with semolina flour (preferred) or cornmeal. Spray tops of rolls lightly with olive oil. Cover loosely with dry waxed paper and let rise to one and one half the original size.
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Turn on oven and set to 500F. making sure there is an empty steam pan in the oven. Score the rolls with two horizontal slashes. Pour several cups of water in the steam pan, and spray the walls of the oven with water. Place the rolls in the oven. After 30 seconds, spray the oven walls again and quickly close the oven door. Repeat spraying again after another 30 seconds. After the final spray, lower the oven temperature to 400, and rotate the pan 180 degrees. It should take about 15 - 20 minutes for rolls to complete baking.
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When rolls are golden and cooked through, remove them from the oven to a cooling rack and rub the tops of the rolls with a stick of butter for a soft, golden crust.
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Paté Fermentée(*)
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Paté Fermentée translates into fermented bread. It is NOT a sourdough, but rather a process that many bakeries use for either French bread, or Italian bread. The Italian version is called biga, and another French version is called poolish. Each version is different in consistency and has different uses depending on what kind of bread you are making. Each one is a key in breadmaking; a little bit from each batch is held over to the next day to make another batch, etc. the following day. I might add, that a frozen then thawed batch of the Paté Fermentée seems to have better bread rising qualities than the original.
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This recipe yields approximately 16 ounces. Use only 8 Ounces for the roll recipe, and freeze the remaining 8 ounces in an air-tight freezer bag. It will last about 3-months. Lightly oil the inside of the freezer bag before you put in the Paté Fermentée.
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Paté Fermentée Ingredients
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1 1/8 Cups of unbleached high gluten bread flour
1 1/8 Cups of All Purpose flour
¾ tsp salt
½ tsp instant yeast
6-7 ounces of bottled water at room temperature
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With a wooden spoon, stir together the flour, salt, sugar, yeast in your largest mixer bowl. Add the water. Mix until it forms a course ball, adding flour and/or water according to need. Mix on medium speed with dough hooks until you get a dough that is neither too sticky nor too stiff.
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Knead for 4 to 6 minutes by hand, or 4 minutes in the mixer with the dough hooks. Dough should be soft and pliable and tacky, but not sticky.
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Lightly oil a large bowl and transfer the dough to the bowl. Roll the dough in the bowl several times so it is coated with the oil. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap. Let it ferment/rise until 1 ½ times the original size.
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Remove the dough from the bowl, knead it lightly to de-gas, and return it to the bowl. Cover with plastic wrap. Place the bowl in the refrigerator over night. You can keep this in the refrigerator for up to three days, or freeze in an airtight plastic bag for up to three months.
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A P.S. here - always use bottled or spring water at room temperature. Chlorinated water and the yeasties don't always get along, and it can change the taste and texture of the bread.
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MONDAY, JUNE 08, 2009
Kaiser Rolls-Knotted
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This recipe makes great Kaiser rolls. It's a long one, but worth the effort. It requires a Pate Fermentee that is shown at the end of this recipe.
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Kaiser Rolls
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Makes 6 large rolls or 9 smaller rolls.
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1 1/2 cups (8 ounces) pate fermentee
2 1/4 cups (10 ounces) unbleached bread flour
3/4 teaspoon plus a pinch (.2 ounce) salt
1 teaspoon (.17 ounce) diastatic barley malt powder
1 teaspoon (.11 ounce) instant yeast
1 large (1.65 ounce) egg, slightly beaten
1 1/2 tablespoons (.75 ounce) vegetable oil or shortening, melted
10 tablespoons
to 3/4 cup (5 to 6 ounces) water, lukewarm (90 to 100 degrees)
Poppy or sesame seeds for topping (optional).
Semolina flour or cornmeal for dusting.
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1. Take 8-ounces of the pate fermentee out of the refrigerator 1-2 hour2 before making the dough. Cut it up into about 10 small pieces with a pastry scraper or serrated knife. Cover it with a towel or plastic wrap and let sit for 1-2 hours to take off the chill.
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2. Stir together the flour, salt, malt powder, and yeast in a 4-quart bowl (or in the bowl of an electric mixer). Add the pate fermentee, egg, oil, and 10 tablespoons water. Stir (or mix on low speed with the paddle attachment) for 1 minute, or until the ingredients form a ball. If there is still some loose flour, add the remaining 2 tablespoons of water.
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3. Lightly dust the counter with flour, transfer the dough to the counter, and begin kneading (or mix on medium speed with the dough hook). Knead for about 10 minutes (6 minutes by machine), adding flour, if needed, to make a dough that is soft and supple, tacky but not sticky. The dough should pass the windowpane test and the internal temperature should register 77 to 81 degrees. Lightly oil a large bowl and transfer the dough to the bowl, rolling it to coat it with oil. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap.
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4. Ferment at room temperature for 2 hours, or until the dough doubles in size. If the dough doubles in size before 2 hours have elapsed, remove it, knead it lightly to degas it, and return it to the bowl to continue fermenting until doubled from original size or until 2 hours have elapsed.
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5. Remove the dough from the bowl and divide it into 6 to 9 equal pieces (4 ounces for large rolls, 2 2/3 ounce pieces for smaller rolls). Form the pieces into rolls as shown on page 82. (attached) Mist the rounds lightly with spray oil, cover with a towel or plastic wrap, and let the dough relax for 10 minutes. Meanwhile, line a sheet pan with baking parchment, lightly mist it with spray oil, and then dust with semolina flour or cornmeal.
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6. Prepare the individual rolls by cutting them with a Kaiser roll cutter or knotting them. Place the rolls, cut side down, on the parchment, mist lightly with spray oil, and loosely cover the pan with plastic wrap or a food-grade plastic bag.
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7. Proof the rolls for 45 minutes at room temperature, then flip them over so the cut or folded side is facing up. Mist again with spray oil, cover the pan, and continue proofing for another 30 to 45 minutes, or until the rolls are double their original size.
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8. Preheat the oven to 425 degrees with the oven rack on the middle shelf. Uncover the rolls and prepare them for baking. If you want seeds on your rolls, mist them with water and sprinkle poppy seeds over the top. If not, just mist them with water.
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9. Place the pan in the oven, spray the oven walls with water, and close the door. After 10 minutes, rotate the pan for even baking and lower the oven setting to 400 degrees. Continue baking until the rolls are a medium golden brown and register approximately 200 degrees in the center. This will take 15 to 30 minutes for large rolls, or less for smaller rolls.
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10. Remove the rolls from the pan and transfer to a cooling rack. Wait at least 30 minutes before serving.
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Pate Fermentee
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Makes 16 to 17 ounces.
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1 1/8 cups (5 ounces) unbleached all-purpose flour
1 1/8 cups (5 ounces) unbleached bread flour
3/4 teaspoon (.19 ounces) salt
1/2 teaspoon (.055 ounce) instant yeast
3/4 cup to 3/4 cup plus (6 to 7 ounces) water, at room temperature plus
2 tablespoons of additional water
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1. Stir together the flours, salt and yeast in a 4-quart bowl (or in the bowl of an electric mixer). Add 3/4 cup of the water, stirring until everything comes together and makes a coarse ball (or mix on low speed for 1 minute with the paddle attachment). Adjust the flour or water, according to need, so that the dough is neither too sticky nor too stiff. (It is better to err on the sticky side, as you can adjust easier during kneading. It is harder to add water once the dough firms up.)
2. Sprinkle some flour on the counter and transfer the dough to the counter. Knead for 4 to 6 minutes (or mix on medium speed with the dough hook for 4 minutes), or until the dough is soft and pliable, tacky but not sticky. The internal temperature should be 77 to 81 degrees.
3. Lightly oil a bowl and transfer the dough to the bowl, rolling it around to coat it with oil. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and ferment at room temperature for 1 hour, or until it swells to about 1 1/2 times its original size.
4. Remove the dough from the bowl, knead it lightly to de-gas, and return it to the bowl, covering the bowl with plastic wrap. Place the bowl in the refrigerator overnight. You can keep this in the refrigerator for up to 3 days, or freeze it in an airtight plastic bag for up to 3 months.
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reply by: cwcdesign on September 10, 2014 at 12:14 pm
cwcdesign
I don't have a baking stone, so that's a moot point for me. But, I definitely will try the recipe. Thanks!
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reply by: kaf-sub-rius on September 10, 2014 at 11:50 am
kaf-sub-rius
I have used this recipe a few times. It generally comes out pretty well for me. I've been thinking of baking them on a baking stone to see if it helps the crust.
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reply by: Mike Nolan on September 10, 2014 at 11:06 am
Mike Nolan
Duplicate post deleted.
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reply by: Mike Nolan on September 10, 2014 at 11:57 am
Mike Nolan
The sandwich roll/hoagie buns recipe that I have posted, which originally came with my sandwich roll pan from KAF (they no longer sell this pan, I'm not sure if Chicago Metallic still makes it) would work well for cheese steaks, I've used it for Chicago-style Italian Beef sandwiches, dipped, and it holds up well.
#
BTW, it's not MY stuffed baguettes recipe, that's in the KAF blog "Baguettes--do try this at home", but I don't think that recipe would work well for cheesesteaks.
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reply by: cwcdesign on September 10, 2014 at 7:38 am
cwcdesign
kaf-sub-rius - have you tried these? They look like they would be a great option.
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reply by: kaf-sub-rius on September 10, 2014 at 7:24 am
kaf-sub-rius
My wife grew up in Philadelphia so I've had a few of "the best" cheese steaks. The buns have usually been extremely light, fluffy and have a light crust. They are also basically tasteless so a baguette might not do it.
Maybe this: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/no-knead-chewy-sandwich-rolls-recipe

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