If you start with a cup of dry rye bread, you will probably need to add about a quarter cup of water, maybe up to a half cup. It'll expand as it soaks up the water, then press the remaining water out. (I've used a potato masher to do that.)
I watched that segment of Deli Man about a dozen times one evening, and I had figured out the part about thinning the center of 3 strands and pinching them together to essentially make six strands for braiding, with one end already pinched down. I'll have to watch the video you just posted a link to and see if I can duplicate it with my macrame practice strands, I'm not sure the one in the film is the same as the classic 6 strand braid.
From what I've heard from people who live in SF, Wise Brothers is a fantastic place. I think I was there once, some years ago, when I took a meandering walk from the Moscone Center back to my hotel near Union Square. (At least the pix on the web look familiar.)
I recently read an article that said salt and yeast co-exist just fine as long as you don't do something like dump salt into a container of proofing yeast. That wasn't as true with cake yeast, but today's active dry or instant yeasts are less sensitive. (Of course if you quadruple the salt, as I did once, you'll get an inedible brick.)
Anyway, the point to autolysis, at least according to its originator, is to let enzymes go to work on the flour, which helps the yeast access the sugar in the flour later on. If you add yeast you're basically making a preferment, like a biga or a poolish. That's a good thing to do, too, but it invokes different biological processes and leads to different (though good) results.
I've seen a number of recipes that use a preferment AND autolysis, and even a few that use a preferment, autolysis and a mash or soaker. (A mash, as I understand it, involves heat, a soaker stays at room temperature.)
Cass, I'm sorry your article didn't post properly, I'm not sure what went wrong. It doesn't seem likely that it would have run afoul of the anti-spam filter. (According to the logs, the anti-spam filter I use has filtered out over 400 spam posts this month!)
I emailed Ziggy from Deli Men and he pointed me to Wise Sons for the challah braided at the end. I emailed Wise Sons and Evan responded (these folks are very nice and very generous with their time) pointed me to this video.
After watching this and the end of Deli Men I've realized what they do is start with three strands and make them really thin in the middle where they cross them over. Then they fold them into six strands and follow the pattern in the video above for a six strand braid. The key different here is that the ends they start from are not six strands pressed together. Also you only need to role three strands per loaf not six.
I'll be working on this over the next couple of weeks.
I am about to dive into making rye bread. Specifically I want to come up with a recipe for Jewish Rye bread. I have several different recipes and I'll try at least a couple and let friends and family sample and help decide (only one family member likes rye so I'll have to rely heavily on friends).
One recipe calls for a cup of altus and describes it as old rye soaked in water with the water wrung out. But that's it. Does anyone have any advice on how much rye with how much water? Is it like making dough balls like my dad used to make for fishing?
Am I over-thinking this?
Thanks
Mike, Bronx, I just read something on autolysis here that recommends adding the yeast with the flour and the water. The authors concern is that mixing the yeast and the salt in to the water/flour mixture could result in the salt killing the yeast.
I made some pizza dough Wednesday and let the water/flour/yeast sit for 20 minutes before adding salt, some more flour, and kneading. We're making pizza tonight so we'll see if anyone notices any difference.
But does autolyzing make any difference when making bread with a starter or sour? What about a bread that sits and ferments for 18-24 hours (like Jim Lahey's no-knead rye bread)?
I baked these Banana Bars but baked 2-8 inch layers and it was very good and moist.This recipe is from Taste of Home:Debbie Knight,Marion,Iowa.
Banana Bars with Cream Cheese Frosting Recipe
TOTAL TIME: Prep: 15 min. Bake: 20 min. + cooling MAKES: 36-48 servings
Ingredients
1/2 cup butter, softened
1-1/2 cups sugar
2 large eggs
1 cup (8 ounces) sour cream
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/4 teaspoon salt
2 medium ripe bananas, mashed (about 1 cup)
FROSTING:
1 package (8 ounces) cream cheese, softened
1/2 cup butter, softened
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
3-3/4 to 4 cups confectioners' sugar
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Nutritional Facts
1 each: 148 calories, 7g fat (4g saturated fat), 28mg cholesterol, 96mg sodium, 21g carbohydrate (16g sugars, 0 fiber), 1g protein.
Directions
Preheat oven to 350°/ In a large bowl, cream butter and sugar until light and fluffy. Add eggs, sour cream and vanilla. Combine flour, baking soda and salt; gradually add to creamed mixture. Stir in bananas.
Spread into a greased 15x10x1-in. baking pan. Bake 20-25 minutes or until a toothpick inserted near the center comes out clean (do not overbake). Cool.
For frosting, in a large bowl, beat cream cheese, butter and vanilla until fluffy. Gradually beat in enough confectioners' sugar to achieve desired consistency. Frost bars. Store in the refrigerator. Yield: 3-4 dozen.
I had to bake these longer like 35 minutes at 350* since mine were in cake pans.This cake was so moist.
The best way to check for a 'ribbon' stage is to try to drop some of the mix from a spatula. If it forms a wide ribbon (think Christmas ribbon candy), you're there. Pate a choux paste is a recipe that calls for ribbon stage.
I'll have to see if I have that recipe, I have Susan Purdy 'Piece of Cake' book, but she changed the title when she updated it. In general I find her recipes pretty reliable and easy to follow. (I can't say that about some other authors.) I've only made genoise a few times, and I haven't settled on a recipe yet. It's always been a recipe where you fold in egg whites.
Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions, Cass and Mike.
Actually, I wasn't beating egg whites. The recipe calls for heating a mixture of six eggs and a cup of sugar in the mixing bowl on top of a pan (double boiler), stirring constantly with a whisk, until it reaches (110-120F). Then the bowl goes onto the mixer, and the egg-sugar mixer is beaten at medium high speed until it reaches the "ribbon stage." While the directions said 3-4 minutes, it was not at that stage at that point, so I increased the speed and beat longer, but I suspect that I was not clear on what ribbon stage should look like. After looking at some pictures later on, I think beating a little longer was likely necessary. I don't know if that mixture could be over beaten or not.
I folded in the flour, then the nuts, a little at a time with a spatula. I wonder if I should have used my cake whisk. It has a flat oval top, with a square criss-cross pattern, and I've used it for adding in whipped egg whites for waffles.
I will try this again, because, hey, I like the challenge, but probably not before we move in June. I'm focusing now on using up a lot of ingredients that would be difficult to move, especially in hotter weather.
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by
BakerAunt.
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by BakerAunt.
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by BakerAunt.
The cake seemed a bit dry to me, in spite of the soaking syrup. The book cautioned not to use more than 3 Tbs. per layer, but with the nuts, maybe a little more would have been better. I used 1 tsp of rum extract in the soaking syrup. That did not have very much taste. I probably should have used regular rum, but I worried about overwhelming the cake.
People liked it, but that may have been the frosting talking. 
I will probably try it again some time, but next time, I will beat the egg-sugar mixer at a higher speed. “Medium high” did not tell me a lot, and my Cuisinart has 12 speeds. I think that I should have beaten it on 8 the entire time. (I started it on six.) I think that I lost some loft when I folded the melted butter into 1 1/2 cups of the batter that I’d moved to a different bowl, per directions, then added it back to the large bowl.
I also wish that I had looked at more internet pictures before I started. It really does help to see what batter is supposed to look like at certain stages.
NARLISS:
Good afternoon. Do not beat yourself up for the outcome of your "FIRST ATTEMPT"
on baking a foam type of cake. They are the most difficult type to do properly.
Even prof bakers have disappointments every now & then. Very sensitive type of baked product.
Narliss, the instructions about the brushing on the layers basically is so to alert the baker not to apply too much because this type of cake structure has a WEAK STRUCTURE & will totally collapse. I think you should just observe when applying same....stop when it is JUST GETTING TO BE SOAKED ENOUGH.
I am sure you did a good job of it.
Anyway Marliss, here is a website that I have in my favorites. I re~read this & others to keep learning. I will share it with you my friend. I think I may have others on a U~TUBE style on sponge foam cakes that you would appreciate. I will post to you in ~E~Mail format soon or when I can locate them in my very long list of favorites box.
Till then enjoy the day my friend.
http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/the-egg-foam-method-in-baking
`CASS / KIDPIZZA.
For folding in egg white, you probably want fairly stiff peaks (bird's beak) but not dry, because the loft you get from egg whites is minimal if the egg whites are too dry.
I always start out slow, to make sure the egg whites are 'loose', then move it up in several stages all the way up to the highest speed on my KA mixer.
The cake seemed a bit dry to me, in spite of the soaking syrup. The book cautioned not to use more than 3 Tbs. per layer, but with the nuts, maybe a little more would have been better. I used 1 tsp of rum extract in the soaking syrup. That did not have very much taste. I probably should have used regular rum, but I worried about overwhelming the cake.
People liked it, but that may have been the frosting talking. 🙂 I will probably try it again some time, but next time, I will beat the egg-sugar mixer at a higher speed. "Medium high" did not tell me a lot, and my Cuisinart has 12 speeds. I think that I should have beaten it on 8 the entire time. (I started it on six.) I think that I lost some loft when I folded the melted butter into 1 1/2 cups of the batter that I'd moved to a different bowl, per directions, then added it back to the large bowl.
I also wish that I had looked at more internet pictures before I started. It really does help to see what batter is supposed to look like at certain stages.
Do you have a chopping board, cake decorating platform or something else you can set the cake on to raise it so that you can use the cake leveler? Of course it needs to be narrower than the cake leveler.
My Wilton cake leveler has notches at 1/4 inch increments, but sometimes that puts the slice where you don't want it, so I adjust the height in roughly 1/16 inch increments by taping pennies to the bottom of the chopping board, a penny is almost exactly 1/16 of an inch thick, so 2 pennies is 1/8 of an inch, etc.
I have a 14" long Dr. Oetker cake knife that I could probably use with a rotating cake decorating platform to hand slice cakes (I've seen a demo of that, probably on Youtube), but my hands aren't steady enough.
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by
Mike Nolan.
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by Mike Nolan.
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by
htfoot.
As noted in this week’s baking thread (April 23), I’m not sure I had a success. The two 8-inch cake layers are each 5/8 inch thick. I’m not sure what height they were supposed to be, but I suspect that the batter deflated.
I’m wondering if I need to default to a different cake.
BAKER AUNT:
I am sorry you had a baking disappointment...or maybe you just think you did. If this is a GENOISE type of cake they are sometimes they are thin layers at times.
There are over the internet a few easy recipes for sponge type of cakes. If you would like try again I will let you know of their address.
Enjoy the day.
~CASS
As noted in this week's baking thread (April 23), I'm not sure I had a success. The two 8-inch cake layers are each 5/8 inch thick. I'm not sure what height they were supposed to be, but I suspect that the batter deflated.
I'm wondering if I need to default to a different cake.
