March 6, 2018 at 5:09 pm #11404
I’ve spent part of this drizzly day paging through Bernard Clayton’s New Complete Book of Breads. I found a recipe that I would like to try, Dark Grains Bread, in the Blended Grain Breads chapter (223-225). He says of this bread–which has wheat germ, buckwheat flour, rye flour, and whole wheat flour, along with some bread flour–“It must be kneaded by hand, being too heavy for a dough hook or food processor.”
The book was published in 1987. I’m thinking that 31 years ago, no home mixer could handle such a dense dough, but is that still true today? We now have the modern spiral kneaders that have replaced the former dough hooks. We also have more powerful mixers. My mixer is the 7-quart Cuisinart. I am thinking of trying this recipe with the mixer. I’d do the initial mix that creates the “batter-like” dough using the flat paddle. I’d then switch to the kneading spiral for the bread flour.
Any thoughts on that?
1+March 6, 2018 at 6:28 pm #11405
- This topic was modified 1 year ago by BakerAunt.
BakerAunt…I would absolutely knead that dough in my KA Pro. I may however, stop the machine half way through the kneading process, and let the machine have a cool down period.
Ever since I burned out my last KA (my fault), I have become very paranoid, even tho this new KA is a much more powerful tool. In fact, I have used those gel packs, that you might put on a sprain ever since. I use the one that has two flaps and is divided in the middle. I just lay it over the top of the machine with one flap on each side. Depending how long I am kneading, like when I make tangzhong bread, I may change out the pack with a fresh one from the freezer. I have no knowledge of your machine however, and I am not sure if this process would work for you.
Your bread sounds wonderful. Let us know how it turns out.1+March 7, 2018 at 1:20 am #11409
What’s the total weight of the dough?
I’m not sure when KA started making the lift-bowl mixers, but I would think a 6 quart bowl with a spiral blade should be able to handle about 80 ounces of dough, or about 5 pounds. (The motor torque capacity is the key, and that’s not always easy to figure out from the specs, that’s one thing I remember from my electrical engineering coursework nearly 50 years ago.)
I find my 45 year old 4.5 quart mixer strains at about 60 ounces, and I have to be careful when making the Clonmel Kitchen recipe, which uses 32 ounces of flour, because if I don’t do it right I get flour all over the counter. I’ve made a Challah recipe that was larger than that, but it was a really soft dough.
Above that, I’d look at other brands. I’ve seen some 10 or 12 quart tabletop mixers available from restaurant supply houses that are in the $750 – $1000 range and use a standard 120V outlet, though possibly 15-20 amps, and there’s the $700 Ankarsrum, which some sources say can handle up to 15 pounds of dough.
The general rule of thumb that I remember was that a 1 HP motor will have an average load of 16 amps and a peak load of 1.25 times that or 20 amps. I think any device that draws over 15 amps is recommended to have its own circuit.1+March 7, 2018 at 9:35 am #11413
Thanks, Mike and Wonky.
Bernard Clayton does not give weights–no one did back then. I’ll list the ingredients:
2 1/2 Cups water
1/3 nonfat dry milk (I’ll probably replace with a cup of buttermilk, and reduce water to 1 1/2 Cups)
1/4 Cup molasses
1 Tbs. salt
1/2 Cup wheat germ
1/2 Cup buckwheat flour
2 pkgs. yeast
2 Tbs. shortening (I’ll probably use butter)
1 Cup rye flour
3 Cups whole wheat flour
1 to 1 1/2 Cups bread or AP flour.
My mixer is listed at 1000 Watts. It does have an automatic shut-off, but I’ve never had it do so. I’ve done some three loaves recipes in it: Grandma A’s Ranch Hand Bread (with about 60% whole wheat and additional flax meal) and Marilyn’s Oatmeal Bread (KAF) with 2 cups whole wheat flour substituted.
I usually proof the yeast, mix the liquid ingredients, and then mix in the whole grains with the paddle. I do a rest period of 15-20 minutes before switching to the dough hook and adding the white flour with the salt. I adopted that technique after making the Grandma A’s bread, and it seems to help the mixer incorporate all the flour more easily, and it gives the whole grains a chance to hydrate, so that I do not add too much additional flour.
I have found that when making bread dough with my mixer, I initially need to stop it and use the dough scraper to turn the dough over to make sure all the flour gets incorporated, but that does not seem unusual to me.
Bernard Clayton adds the salt with the yeast mixture. I usually hold it back and add it in with whatever white flour I’m using. I’ll probably do that here.
I’ll likely try this recipe, which makes two loaves, on Friday or Saturday, by which time we should be finishing up the last loaf I baked.1+March 7, 2018 at 3:52 pm #11421
Bread sounds good Bakeraunt.0March 7, 2018 at 4:42 pm #11422
I had to add a few of the ingredients to my Baker’s Math Calculator recipe analyzer, but Clayton’s recipe works out to about 54 ounces at about 82% hydration, which is going to make it fairly heavy. The hydration seems kind of high but the whole grains should absorb a lot of moisture.
I would not try it in my 4 1/2 quart KA mixer.
I’m not sure about a 5 1/2 quart KA mixer, but I would think the 6 quart models would handle it.1+March 7, 2018 at 5:03 pm #11423
Thanks, Mike, for working out the weight and hydration.
If the mixer starts to strain, I will switch to hand kneading.1+March 8, 2018 at 9:59 am #11443
I have a 6 quart KA and while the motor could handle this it would over flow the dough hook (don’t know about the spirals). It really depends on the motor size more than the size of the bowl and for a while KA was shipping different size mixers without stepping up the motor.
If you’re looking for restaurant mixers you can usually find decent ones used. Restaurants go out of business so often and they usually sell their gear at a discount. There used to be special auctions but now most of this stuff is auctioned on ebay according to my bankruptcy lawyer.1+March 8, 2018 at 10:19 am #11444
Who’s running those Ebay auctions and where do they store the stuff? Usually when a restaurant closes they’ve only got a few weeks to clear out the space. There used to be a company in Lincoln that dealt in used restaurant gear, they’d go to a closed restaurant and offer a price for the whole shop, but they had the warehouse space to hold it. However the guy running it retired and couldn’t find a buyer for the business. Maybe there are some companies still doing that, but using Ebay?
I’ve been to a number of restaurant auctions over the years, and gotten some good bargains there, but only one in the last year when a local catering company closed. It was well-attended, most of the caterers in Lincoln were there and a few from 50-100 miles away. Stuff was going at prices far above what I was willing to pay.
At each of their bowl sizes, KA mixers seem to have two or three different motor options, so you need to be really careful, especially when buying a KA mixer at a low price from a large discount outlet. You can find a plate giving the wattage of the motor, but that doesn’t tell the full story.1+March 8, 2018 at 8:58 pm #11460
Tonight I baked the Dark Grains Bread. My only changes were to substitute in 1 cup of buttermilk for a cup of the water and to use 2 Tbs. butter rather than shortening. My 7-quart Cuisinart handled the dough easily, with only a bit of “climbing” on the spiral dough hook. (I just stop the mixer, clean it off, and start it again.) I did let the dough set for 15 minutes after mixing in the whole grains before adding the salt and the bread flour. I needed the entire 1 1/2 cups bread flour. I kneaded the dough for 5 minutes (he said 8 minutes by hand) on speed 3, which is the speed my mixer recommends for rye breads, which I thought might be a good idea with the heavy amount of whole grains. I did stop the mixer at times to make sure the flour was incorporated or to add that last 1/2 cup of flour, 1/4 cup at a time. Baking time was 50 minutes, but I took it out a couple of minutes early when the temperature registered 205F. Bernard Clayton, and the rest of we home bakers, were still using the “thump” test back in 1987, so I guessed that a wholegrain bread should bake to 205F. It’s not a super high rising bread, but the 8×4 inch loaves are respectable loaves. I’ll post tomorrow about taste and texture after we have some of the bread at lunch.1+March 9, 2018 at 1:25 pm #11466
The bread has a chewy crust, a firm yet soft interior, and a moderate open crumb. I see why Bernard Clayton recommends it for open-faced sandwiches. I like the overall flavor, except that I find the molasses somewhat strong. I’ll bake this bread again, but I will probably cut back the molasses from 1/4 cup to either 2 or 3 Tbs. I had the bread for lunch with a one-egg omelet (flavored with Penzey’s Mural Seasoning and some sautéed onion) on top of a slice. It pairs well with the more savory filling. I like the grain mix, and except for 1 1/2 cups bread flour, it is completely whole grain.
- This reply was modified 1 year ago by BakerAunt.
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