Interesting article on the “oversupply of bread”

[aaronatthedoublef]

Interesting article

Not sure I would classify it as "waste" if bread is going to a food shelter or helping people in need but I can see how if you are trying to make money producing and selling bread this would be concerning.

There is also a big disconnect between wholesale and retail pricing for flour. The KAF bread flour that retails for between $4.25 and $6.50 for five pounds costs $15/50 lb. bag wholesale.

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• This topic was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by aaronatthedoublef.
• This topic was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by aaronatthedoublef.

[BakerAunt]

Hi, Aaron. For some reason the link takes me to a "cannot display this page" message, so I could not read the article.

King Arthur used to sell 25 pound bags of their AP flour, and they were a good deal--especially with the Baker's Bucks program. Now they won't sell anything larger than 10 pounds for mail order, and the price is not particularly competitive with Walmart prices for two 5 pound bags. When we were traveling through Rantoul, IL on our various trips back and forth between Indiana and Texas, I was sometimes able to pick up a 25 pound bag at that Walmart. The Walmart here only has the standard five pound bags. KAF also does not sell bread flour online in more than a 5 pound bag, and again, I can beat that price at Walmart. I remember Zen musing that KAF is now interested only in the professional market and the "boutique" bakers who are willing to buy all sorts of specialty ingredients--often for just a single recipe try. I've also noted that KAF is really pushing their mixes now. Someone asked in the comments section of the regular flour why they don't offer the 25 pound bags of regular flour anymore, and they told the person, if he or she is a professional, to go to the professional section of the site. Apparently "civilians" need not apply.

I understand that it is expensive to ship 25 pound bags of flour. Bob's Red Mill, which has free shipping for orders of $50 or more will not include a 25 pound bag in the free shipping offer. However, they will include bulk buys of bags--and the product is less expensive when you buy bags bundled together. I was able to try their bread flour (store in Texas had it on special), and I noted no difference between it and KAF's, so I am mulling an order to them. I like the unbleached, extra fine cake flour as well (and thank you for telling us about it on this site!). I find that they are also a less expensive source for specialty flours, as well as couscous, brown rice and other grains, beans, and I am a long time fan of their old-fashioned and quick oats.(The website is irritating, so I hope they fix it.)

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by BakerAunt.

[Mike Nolan]

Try this link:
Bread Article

Small packages nearly always cost a LOT more than bigger ones, whether that's flour or toothpaste. That's why I was hoping to have my son pick up a 50 pound bag of first clear flour, because it's only about 3X the cost of a 2 pound bag from KAF. (Shipping it would cost far more than the flour, but I may wind up doing that anyway.)

Recently the local WalMart only has KAF AP flour, not the bread flour, and at around $4.25 for a five-pound bag, which is higher than the price at Hy-Vee, where it is currently $3.99.

The only place I've seen a 10 pound bag of KAF flour (other than at the KAF store) was at a Whole Foods in Omaha, the one in Lincoln only has the 5 pound bag.

FWIW, the purchase of Whole Foods by Amazon seems likely to affect the entire food industry. But what's going to happen is that products (and possibly entire lines or companies) will disappear completely. Instead of 75 or 100 different types of bread (counting buns, donuts, etc), there may only be 50-60. At a store recently, I counted nearly a dozen types and brands of hot dog buns.

I've already seen several Heinz products go off the market, and a Frito-Lay rack jobber told me the other day that they no longer make 'plain' Doritos, because they have a dozen or more flavored versions to stock.

So be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

[BakerAunt]

Thanks, Mike that worked. It's an interesting article.

A friend in Texas used to buy the marked down "old" bread. One day, that shelf was gone. She learned from a manager that it is more cost effective for the store to donate it and take the write-off than to sell it--particularly when people are not buying the full-priced bread but the sale bread.

In an issue of the older Baking Sheet, Jeffrey Hamelman wrote about having to throw bread away when homeless shelters and farm animals have enough. A blizzard hits, and no one comes to buy what is baked.

Maybe part of the problem is that there is too much inferior bread, cheaply made, being produced.

[Mike Nolan]

Bread is often commodity-priced. If there are two types of 'white bread' on the shelf, one at $1.25 and one at $2.95, many people will buy the lower priced one, regardless of their perception of quality and taste. Those of us who make our own bread know that there aren't very many shortcuts to making cheaper bread, except to use cheaper ingredients or more chemicals to increase the shelf life.

There used to be an Old Home 'day old' shop near us, but it closed. I think there may still be one on the north side of town.

The homeless shelters and food pantries usually have lots of bread, what they often don't have is stuff to put on that bread or serve with it.

Two of the grad students in Agronomy and Horticulture are running a research experiment this summer with tomatoes, they have 10 rows of them, each 160 feet long. That's a LOT of tomatoes! (One day they picked, weighed and graded over 1000 pounds of them.) They've been donating a bunch of them to the food pantry, but there's a limit to how much fresh food they can handle at a time, because it spoils on their shelves just like it spoils on ours.

[aaronatthedoublef]

Hmmm.... Tried fixing the link myself but it's not working. Might be a browser issue. I'll try a different one.

Costco sells 25 lb. bags of KAF AP flour by me. I do not know the price. NY Bakers sells five pound bags of first clear here http://nybakers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=113 for $8.95 for a 5 lb. bag. Same price as the KAF 2 lb. bag and no one has noticed the difference yet. It also comes in a poly bag which, so far, has faired better when shipped. With KAF I lose a bag every couple of shipments (they always replace it right away). Walmart shipped me flour and literally just dumped the flour bags into a box and two of five bags split open.

Walmart used to ship free to a store and you could come pick it up there. I don't know if they still do it but it might be worth a check.

Also, they are teaming up with Google to battle Amazon and Kroger is supposed to be making massive changes and infusions in tech as well. We'll see how those go.

[Mike Nolan]

The first Costco in Lincoln will be opening near us next month, so we just joined. We went to the one in LaVista last weekend, no KAF flour there, the 25 pound bags were the Kirkland 'house brand', bleached and brominated, I think. They did have an unbleached flour in two-packs of 10 pound bags, I don't remember whose, but it wasn't KAF.

The only NY Bakers I can find online is in San Diego, I thought you lived on the east coast, Aaron.

I have ordered a few things from walmart.com, including a pail of wheat berries, I haven't seen any problems with shipments, but I haven't ordered bags of flour that way. I've never had any problems with broken items when I ordered from KAF, but I did have a bag of pastry flour missing from an order. They shipped a replacement when I called. I don't think I've ordered anything larger than a 2 pound bag of flour from KAF.

I don't know if Kroger has any stores in Nebraska, definitely none in Lincoln. We have Hy Vee, a regional chain based in Iowa, and Super Saver/Russ's, an even smaller chain based in Lincoln.

[Italiancook]

I just checked Costco online, and didn't find King Arthur flour.

[chocomouse]

I often buy 10 pound bags of KAF AP at BJs for $6.49, if you have one near you. But, since KAF is just 10 miles down the road from me, I sometimes buy a 50 lb bag of Sir Lancelot. They sell for the wholesale price, which changes frequently, but is usually around $30.00. I used to get about two bags a year, but we don't eat so much any more and since I retired I don't have an office to share staff meeting treats.

[BakerAunt]

There is a Kroger near me that sells 5 pound bags of King Arthur's AP, whole wheat, and white whole wheat. It is more expensive than Walmart's prices on the AP and whole wheat. (Walmart does not carry the white whole wheat flour.) Kroger actually had better prices on Bob's Red Mill AP and whole wheat flour than King Arthur, but the prices are still higher than the Walmart prices.

What I've observed is that stores in areas where there are a lot of family farms tend to carry 25 pound bags of flour, perhaps because farming people do not make weekly grocery trips but stock up when they do come for groceries. However, maybe farming folk are not baking that much anymore and there is less demand for large bags.

[Mike Nolan]

I don't see very many 25 pound bags of flour in the stores here in Lincoln, except at Sams and (presumably) Costco. But I don't know very many people who bake a lot.

I've said this before, but you have to keep track of prices to know if the grocery prices at WalMart are good buys or not. They tend to react to local pricing changes, but not to the weekly sales. Costco has set up tents near both Sams Club stores and probably every WalMart in town, looks like they're making a strong push for business ahead of next month's Costco opening. It'll be interesting to see what happens to pricing between that and the Amazon/Whole Foods deal.

[aaronatthedoublef]

I'll check on the KAF at Costco.

Maybe I have bad luck with flour shipments or rougher-than-normal UPS folks.

NY Bakers is in San Diego but I ordered it. I will see if the wholesaler carries First Clear but right now I have about eight pounds of it so that will last me for another month or so.

[BakerAunt]

I've had mostly success with flour deliveries from KAF, but I've noted that UPS has more of a tendency to crush boxes these days. I recall a Baking Circle thread in which KAF sub-rius commented on UPS not following the techniques he had used when working temporarily at the company. He always had interesting baking threads. I wish that he had joined us here. I don't think that I've had a single box lately in a KAF delivery where one side has not been crushed. Fortunately, nothing was damaged.

KAF is very good about replacing damaged goods, and they always ask about the packing to see if it was at fault. I recently bought the large 2-sheet cake sized pan from them. The first one had scratches that went through the finish, but in that case, it was not the packing. They sent a replacement with no problems (even though UPS again crushed part of the box).

[BakerAunt]

NY Bakers also sells Queen Guinevere (KAF's bleached cake flour). I'm going to have to spend some time at their website.

[Mike Nolan]

When I was in San Diego a couple of years ago, I gave some thoughts to driving to the NY Bakers warehouse, but it isn't clear whether they support over-the-counter sales or just mail order.

I bought 5 pounds of cake flour at a Mennonite store that had been rebagged from a larger bag. It wasn't labeled as to whose it was, it could have been Queen G, which they no longer sell in home-baker sized bags.

I also used to get a great pumpernickel flour at that Mennonite store, which I would hit whenever I was visiting my employer's national office, but since I retired I probably won't be going there (Crossville TN) again, and I think the nearest Mennonite/Amish community is likely to be in eastern Iowa.

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