Bread Tray Baking (and Vienna Bread) Thread

[BakerAunt]

Bread Tray baking
hello, been busy baking loaves for the past week, my wife is away on a trip so I have the kitchen to myself ,,ha ha. I recently purchased baking trays for Italian and French bread , perforated wells. I baked loaves in both pans and both times the bottom of the loaves did not crisp up as I expected . That is the reason I bought the trays. to crisp the bottoms evenly. I don't have a baking stone but used a cast iron griddle to place the trays on. steamed the oven also. Is there a trick to using these pans? Any help appreciated .
posted by: artpfla on June 03, 2014 at 1:50 pm in Baking, yeast

reply by: Antilope on June 03, 2014 at 6:52 pm
I have two of those perforated French bread trays (one for larger loaves and one for baguettes). They do a really good job of keeping the shape of the rising dough, but the loaves do tend to be a little pale on the bottom. I've lowered the oven temperature 25 degrees F and leave the loaves in longer to get the bottoms darker and crisper.
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Something else I've thought about doing (haven't tried it yet, but will next time), half-way or 2/3rd's through the baking time, flip the baguettes over, so the bottoms are now facing up.

reply by: sarahh on June 04, 2014 at 3:34 pm
I don't use mine very often, because they often stick, but I don't put any pan or baking stone underneath when I bake them. I just place the perforated pan on the oven rack and let it bake away. I have had the bottoms be pale sometimes. I just remove the mostly baked baguettes from the pan and place them back in the oven, right on the oven rack, for 5 minutes or so to brown them a little more.
Now that you reminded me of the pan, I think I'll pull it out and make some baguettes. No time today, maybe tomorrow. 🙂

reply by: Antilope on June 04, 2014 at 4:26 pm
When I first got my French bread / baguette pans, they didn't stick (had a clear non-stick coating). But now after a few months use they are starting to stick. I find that spraying the pans with Pillsbury Baking Spray with flour before placing the dough on the pans really prevents sticking.
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In case anyone else is interested, here are the type of pans we are talking about:
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http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/baguette-pan
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http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/italian-loaf-pan
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http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/baguette-pan-baguettes-recipe

reply by: bakeraunt on June 06, 2014 at 4:11 pm
I have greased mine with Crisco, and the dough does not stick. However, sometimes the Crisco gets into the holes, then melts out onto the oven and burns, so I try to make sure they are cleared out. I think that the grease does help to brown the bottom of the bread.

reply by: BakerIrene on June 06, 2014 at 8:13 pm
The perforated trays are intended to be used directly on the oven rack. That way the steam comes out of all sides of the dough.
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If you want to use a pan of water to add steam then the steam pan must be separated from the perforated bread pan by one oven rack space.
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In my oven I don't add any steam at all, just the perforated heavyweight aluminum tray sold for pizza at 350F makes good crusty bread.

reply by: Antilope on June 06, 2014 at 8:44 pm
On the shelf below the perforated baguette pan, I add an empty baking sheet (that has a raised edge around it). When I place the bread in the hot oven I add 1 cup of water to the hot baking sheet and it makes a lot of steam for a few minutes.

reply by: Antilope on June 20, 2014 at 5:04 pm
For me, traditional French baguettes made with only flour, water, salt and yeast dry out too fast, are dry and chewy later and don't have a good shelf life.
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I prefer Vienna Bread baguettes. They are softer, have more taste and a longer shelf life. These are great split and used for sub sandwiches or hoagie rolls. I also make hamburger buns from this recipe. Here is my Vienna Bread baguette recipe for baguette pans:
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Vienna Bread baguettes
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Makes about 36 oz of Baguette Dough. Enough for 3 - 12 oz (350gm) Baguettes.
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1-1/3 cups (320g) milk
4 Tbsp (46g) White Granulated Sugar
2 Tbsp (8g) Powdered Milk or Dry Coffee Creamer
2 tsp (11.2g) Table Salt
2-1/2 Tbsp (35g) Olive Oil
4-1/4 cups (544g) Bread Flour
2-1/4 tsp (7g) Instant Yeast
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Add Ingredients to bread mixing pan, in the order that
Ingredients are listed above. Snap pan into Zo Bread Machine.
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Set Bread Machine to Dough Cycle. Press Start.
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Ingredients will be warmed for about 25 minutes before mixing starts.
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When mixing starts, add more water or flour, if needed, to make a
soft smooth dough, that is not crumbly or too sticky. Add a Tablespoon at a time, if needed.

Dough will mix and knead for 20 minutes and then rise for about 70 minutes.

You can also use a stand mixer (like a Kitchen-aid) and knead the dough for 5 to 8 minutes, and let
rise for 45 minutes.

When the Bread Machine beeps, and there is zero time left on the display, take out the dough and divide into 3 equal size pieces.

Each piece of Baguette dough should be about 12-oz (350gm) each.

Roll each of the 3 pieces of dough into a sausage shape, about 14-inches long. Try to make them even diameter along their length.

Place each of the 3 pieces of the rolled out dough on the Baguette Baking Pan.

Place the Baguette Baking Pan in the oven, near the center. Mist dough with water.

On the shelf below the baguettes, add a cookie sheet and pour a cup of water in it.

Turn on the oven, at 350-F, for ONLY 2-minutes, to warm the dough. TURN OFF THE OVEN.

Allow the Baguettes to rise for 45 to 60 minutes in the warm oven, with the oven light on, until the dough doubles in size.

Cut three, 1/4 inch deep diagonal slashes, in each baguette and mist dough with water.

Set the oven to 400-F, and Set the timer for 25 to 28 minutes. We are timing from when we turn on the oven.

After 25 to 28 minutes, the baguettes crust should be golden brown and centers should be at least 195-F. Bake a little longer if needed.

Remove from oven. Let cool for about 5-minutes before slicing.

reply by: bakeraunt on June 20, 2014 at 3:24 pm
Antilope: Do you think that this recipe would still work well if I substituted in some whole wheat flour for part of the bread flour--maybe about one cup?

Thanks, Bakeraunt

reply by: Antilope on June 20, 2014 at 5:08 pm
I've substituted some whole wheat or white whole wheat in this recipe before (a cup or two). Works fine. You may have to add a little more liquid as whole wheat seems to absorb more.

You notice I start these in a cold oven. It takes 10 minutes for my gas oven to reach the desired temperature. I figured, "Why waste 10 minutes of gas?" So I just incorporate pre-heating into the baking process. Doesn't hurt bread. I wouldn't try this with a cake, however. 😉

reply by: bakeraunt on June 20, 2014 at 5:17 pm
I have an electric oven. I wonder if that will make a difference with a cold start?

reply by: Antilope on June 20, 2014 at 5:25 pm
In their French baguette recipe, King Arthur Flour preheats a baking stone to 500-F and then bakes their baguettes at 475-F for 18 to 24 minutes.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/baguette-pan-baguettes-recipe

I bake mine at a lower temperature a little longer due to the sugar in them, so it won't burn.

If you just bake them at 400-F until the outside color looks golden, they will be done in the center.

reply by: bakeraunt on June 20, 2014 at 5:47 pm
I am going to try baking your recipe. I am supposed to bring bread to my husband's family reunion in August (where many of us are great bakers), and I want one that will stay fresh for a couple of days. I hope it will also do well in Indiana humidity in August.

reply by: omaria on June 20, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Your loaves look beautiful .

reply by: robinwaban on June 20, 2014 at 6:28 pm
Antilope- Beautiful loaves.

reply by: Antilope on June 20, 2014 at 7:09 pm
I made some of these baguettes last week and leftover pieces in a Tupperware were still good 3 days after baking.

reply by: Antilope on June 20, 2014 at 7:20 pm
I'm not happy with the slashing on these. This picture is from about a month ago. I've made several batches since and my dough slashing has gotten better. I use a Stanley box cutter to slash the loaves. I have one dedicated to just baking. The slashes should be about 1/4-inch deep and about 4 inches long, going diagonally from one side of the baguette to the other. Each baguette should have 3 slashes. The slashing is to promote dough expansion during baking, it directs the dough to expand outward. If you don't slash the baguettes, they won't expand as much during baking and may even develop splits or large cracks.

If you slashing causes the risen dough to deflate too much, slash the dough earlier (halfway through rising). This will give it time to recover and re-expand before baking.

reply by: bakeraunt on June 27, 2014 at 1:12 pm
Thanks, Antilope for an excellent recipe. I made a couple of changes in that I subbed in 1 1/4 C whole wheat flour for an equal amount of bread flour. I was out of milk, so I used water and 1/3 C of the King Arthur special dried milk (and omitted the powdered milk). I also added 2 Tbs. ground flax meal. I used by stand mixer. The three loaves baked very well in my pan at 400 and were done in about 18 minutes (electric oven). One of the three loaves had been eaten by this morning, so the family loves them.

My next experiment will be to try to increase the recipe by one and a half times. I have a "sandwich bun" tray that KAF used to carry that has five wide slots for making long buns. The recipe that came with it used about 6 cups of flour. It was good, but those buns dried out very fast (by the next day).

I will multiply all ingredients by one and a half, except for the yeast. Perhaps 2 3/4 or 3 tsp.?

reply by: Antilope on June 27, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Glad your version of the recipe worked out for you. I store the buns or baguettes in an airtight lock & lock (similar to Tupperware) container when they have been out of the oven an hour or two, so mine don't dry out.

The original recipe is 1000 grams or about 2 1/4 lbs. You are increasing it to about 3 1/3 lbs. That would be equal to about two 1-1/2 lb. loaves of bread. I would use 4 or 5 tsp of yeast (like using 2 1/4 tsp per 1 1/2 lb. loaf).

reply by: bakeraunt on June 27, 2014 at 1:54 pm
Thank you Antilope. I will try it with 4 tsp. of yeast and report back on the result.

reply by: kathyd on June 27, 2014 at 2:07 pm
These look great. I will have to try them when the kitchen is done. Adding to my list!

reply by: bakeraunt on August 06, 2014 at 5:14 pm
Hi, Antilope. Since my husband did not let me bring my baguette pan on vacation (something about no room in our tightly packed truck), I decided that I would bake my variation on your bread as a boule rather than three baguettes. I cheated in that I used an 8-inch pan with 2-inch sides to make sure that it would rise high and not spread. I don't have a stand mixer here, so I mixed by hand, then kneaded for 10 minutes. The first rising took 45 minutes. As I was shaping it, I had to keep popping gas bubbles, but I got it into a respectable ball. I let it rise for 30 minutes, then slashed it, and let it rise another 15 before putting it in the oven. At 30 minutes it was looking good but far from done. After 40 minutes, it was not done but getting there. I was concerned about burning it, so at that point I lowered the temperature on the electric oven by 25F. I also took the bread out of the pan and put it directly on the oven rack. Ten minutes later, it was at 205F. I worried that the crust was a bit dark, but it was not burned and smelled wonderful. Your technique of slashing, before the second rise is over, made for a very nice pattern on the top.

The attendees at the family reunion LOVED it. The bread had a chewy crust and a wonderful light texture. The oven spring was great (something I could not check until 30 minutes into the bake, as the oven here does not have a window in the door). I will definitely bake it this way again when I want a big loaf rather than baguettes.

reply by: Antilope on August 06, 2014 at 5:19 pm
Glad it turned out okay for you. I will have to try a boule. I've come to like rich breads (made with milk and butter or oil) better than French lean breads. I am amazed by the oven spring I get with this bread, even though I start it in a cold oven.

reply by: frick on August 07, 2014 at 2:11 pm
Keeping this for future reference. Thanks, everyone.

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• This topic was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by BakerAunt.

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