Kitchenaid Mixer

[skeptic7]

I was at a nearby estate sale and saw a Kitchenaid mixer with the lift type bowl. Knowing that I didn't need it I bought it for $120.00. Its a 5qt model and at least several years old. The sellers said that a group of them had gotten together to buy it for a Xmas present. The original owner is going into assisted living and her niece and other relatives were selling her household items. Did I cheat the sellers? They asked me to make an offer on the price.
Also what is the advantage of this style over the tilt-head Kitchenaid mixers? Can I use it for bread dough?
It was so cute, and I hadn't tried to use one of those before. How do you keep from buying unnecessary things? I almost bought some pie pans and cake pans too but resisted bravely.

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[RiversideLen]

No, you didn't cheat them. Buying a used appliance is always an unknown. You made an offer and they accepted it. I hope you got all of the accessories with it.

I am on my second KA lift bowl, the first one still works but I retired it because the newer one had some features I wanted (wider bowl, spiral bread hook and the color). I wanted the bowl lift model because my mixer lives on the counter partially under overhead cabinets and I didn't want a tilt head bumping up against those cabinets. You very much can use it to make bread doughs, that is the main thing I use mine for.

The advantage of the bowl lift over the tilt head is that the head will never pop up under a load. Their heavier duty models tend to be bowl lift. But honestly, I think it's 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. The one you're used to is going to be the one you like better.

[Mike Nolan]

Depending on the exact model and seller, the bowl lift KA models can be found for anywhere from around $275 to over $500.

IMHO, $120 is a good price for such a mixer.

[skeptic7]

I found the model number and the serial number and it looks like it was made in February 2006. It was very expensive new, no wonder it was a group gift. It is old enough that I don't feel too bad at offering less than a third of the original price.

[BakerAunt]

Keep us posted, Skeptic, as you acclimate to the raised bowl stand mixer. Have you decided what your first bake will be?

[skeptic7]

I think I am going to do a Chocolate yeast bread, its the last bread I made by hand and I want to see how the experience differs. I used all the tricks to make hand kneading easier starting with a sponge, then resting the dough before kneading, and kneading the butter into the dough instead of adding it earlier. Since I use the butter on my hands and the kneading board I don't need to add as much flour giving a moister dough.
Now it seems that instead of kneading for half an hour, I only have to knead for 2 minutes and don't have to worry about easiest ways to mix ingredients.

[Mike Nolan]

I've been increasing the amount of time I knead breads in the mixer, and it makes better bread.

It is possible to over-knead bread in a mixer, but it takes something like 30 minutes to do it. At some point the gluten structure just collapses. I've actually read one book that suggested you do it--once--so that you know what to watch for.

I think that same book said it isn't possible to over-knead bread by hand, you will collapse before the gluten structure does. 🙂

[BakerAunt]

I have found with my 7-qt. Cuisinart stand mixer that most dough needs 6-8 minutes. Of course, I'm usually making breads that are heavily whole grain with a recipe that makes 2-3 loaves. I also find my Cuisinart mixer kneads better on speed 3 rather than the recommended 2 (note that it has 12 speeds on the dial). I usually check my dough after 6 minutes. None of that counts the initial mixing of the wet ingredients with most of the flour and a resting time of 15 minutes before adding the remaining flour.

The big difference I noticed when I moved from hand kneading to using the stand mixer was that I used less flour.

I only got into trouble with my mixer once, as I wrote a while back when I smelled burning, and that was because I was using the mixing rather than the kneading attachment, because I wanted to mix in the oil (I add last) before moving to the kneading hook. That was not a good idea since it was a heavy dough for three loaves. Lesson learned.

[skeptic7]

Good Morning all;
First thanks for all your good advice on machine kneading. Otherwise I would have panicced and worried about overkneading.
The start of this was much like doing it by hand. Mix the sponge ingredients and let it rise. Stir together cocoa, sugar, salt and part of flour. Reserve the rest of the flour in a convenient container.
The first change was beating the eggs and butter together. I don't think the mixer was made for such small amounts. It would have been faster by hand especially trying to cream the butter. The butter was still in chunks when I gave up.
Then I mixed in the sponge and that went better. However it is much harder to add ingredients than with a tilt head mixer. Lowering the bowl doesn't really give clearance to pour in ingredients, and taking the bowl out lets the beater drip onto the base. Also using a spatula to scrape the bowl is harder.
I then changed to the dough hook and added most of the dry ingredients. A hook is a really inefficient mixing tool. The mixer bowl is hard to scrape down even in its lower position. I found I could unfasten the hook and then the bowl so I could effectively run a scraper along the sides. Its also wierd to trying to carefully add the flour without using your hands to gauge the stickiness. This is where I was so glad for your advice. I went over the 2 minutes of kneading and then decided to continue until the sides were cleaner and the dough started climbing the hook. I think I went around 6 minutes, then added the walnuts and cherries and kneaded 2 more minutes.
I left the dough in the mixing bowl to rise, and started cleaning up. This made less of a mess than kneading by hand and took less time. Washing the mixer was a little awkward, I had to put it on its side to clean the underside of the head. The nice thing was that the mixing bowl was a good size to let the dough rise. I just put a pan lid on it and left it.
This made 24 rolls which baked up nicely and turned out light and fluffy. A little drier than last time.

[skeptic7]

Mike;
Have you ever overkneaded a dough when kneading by hand? I've kneaded some doughs for a considerable amount of time without getting close. I've always assumed that I would get bored before reaching the limit. I had one cookbook that recommended overkneading to make good English Muffins so thought it would be possible.
I am surprised that it would take 30 minutes to overknead by machine. I was afraid that kneading only a minute or two too long would have problems.
Thanks

[Mike Nolan]

No, I'm sure I've never over-kneaded by hand, I haven't taken one all the way to structural collapse in the mixer, either. I'm told it essentially curdles at that point.

[BakerAunt]

It sounds like a great first effort, Skeptic. Depending on the mixer, you might be able to substitute a spiral attachment for the hook, if you wish. That would be a question for Kitchen Aid.

If you were having trouble mixing a small amount, it may be that the mixer head needs adjusting? I seem to recall Kitchen Aid videos on that subject. Or, it could be that your mixer is like my 7-qt Cuisinart which handles large amounts of dough beautifully but gets into trouble with small amounts of dough (makes a well in the center, and rest of ingredients are on the side not being touched). That was one reason I was eager to get the used bread machine, which I use for most sweet rolls, buns, and single loaves. It was a problem both with a small amount of stickier dough, which the bread machine handles well, or a small amount of heavy dough, as in my crispbread recipe, where I just do the ten minutes of kneading by hand, as I think that dough too heavy for a bread machine.

I have two special long spatulas that I use with the deep bowl of my stand mixer. One is straight, and the other has a slight curve.

[Mike Nolan]

I tried a third-party spiral from Amazon on my 4.5 quart KA, it didn't fit. Ones for larger models might be better, and KA may sell official ones.

[skeptic7]

I went to look at the Kitchen Aid site. The spiral hook isn't made for the 5 qt mixers. They do have replacements for the paddle beater available.
Some of the KA attachments look very interesting especially the meat grinder and pasta maker. I can't see myself using these but they are interesting.

[Mike Nolan]

There are third parties that make a spiral dough hook, but when I tried one on my 50 year old 4.5 quart mixer, it was too big (it touched the bowl in several places.) One might work on a newer 4.5 quart or on a model with a bigger bowl.

I use the pasta roller/cutters all the time, for spaghetti and linguine. That's one reason why if I ever have to repair/replace my mixer or move up to a size capable of doing 15 pounds of dough at a time, I'm likely to make sure I've still got one that handles KA appliances, even if it is only a new small KA mixer that is only used for things like meringue and pasta.

My son has a 6 quart bowl-lift model, I really don't like it because the bowl pops off too easily. Having worked with a 24 quart commercial mixer, the bowls lock on so they can't pop off.

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