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Thank you for the responses. It looks like I need to read through all the comments from a few years ago before I ask any questions. I'm sure the answers are in there. I gave up on baking pretty quickly and have been buying Dave's Killer Bread, Good Seed or Ezekiel Bread. But the cost has increased so much that I can buy a 5-pound bag of KAF white whole wheat flour for the same price as one loaf of bread. So I'm back at it. Mike, I am going to try your idea of using honey and water to keep seeds stuck to the loaf.
BakerAunt (or anyone else), In your recipe post you wrote that the bran muffin recipe was from the wheat germ jar but the recipe calls for wheat bran. I thought those were different. Are they the same thing? Or are they interchangeable? Also I'd like to make these with spelt flour. Should I make any adjustments to the other ingredients? Thanks.
BakerAunt, thank you for the site information and the link.
Also, I have seen recipes using oat flour. Can I make that by running rolled oats through the food processor until it is the consistency of flour? BakerAunt I am also trying to branch out to other whole grains. I have a few recipes that I make with spelt flour (cake and muffins) and will try a spelt bread recipe soon. I like the taste of whole wheat flour but also like variety.
Thank you for processing the recipe Mike. I am not familiar with Whole Grain Bread Improver or diastatic barley malt but I have heard of vital wheat gluten and will try that, along with the vinegar. BakerAunt, thank you for the instructions on copying a link! And I will look for that bread improver recipe from S. Wirth. I hate to sound dumb but where do I find Baking Thread? And yes, that was the recipe I used this time.
Skeptic7, I would love to try your recipe. The rosemary sounds especially good. Mike I will also try a smaller pan. I had not thought that mine may be a little too big. Thank you.
BakerAunt, I don’t know how to post links but the one I baked the other day has sunflower seeds and walnuts in it. I also have tried two that show “ears.” One says to use orange juice, the other does not.
Mike I just saw your second post. I forgot the window pane, will do that next time. Thank you for the link. Yes the bread has a wonderful taste!
BakerAunt, I will try the poke next time. Mike, I'll watch for the soaker or mash explained further in the books that were recommended. I have another question. On the KAF site, there are several other 100% whole wheat bread recipes that I tried. The pictures showed high loaves with the "ears" (I don't know how else to describe it when the bread rises high and then hooks around just above the middle of the loaf.) Neither of my loaves got nearly that high. I thought I followed directions exactly but thost pictures sure didn't look anything like mine did. Any ideas? I'll keep trying. That is my goal for the winter, to have whole wheat bread that is bread shaped.
First experiment is finished. I made KAF 100% whole wheat sandwich bread with a rest before kneading and before shaping into the loaf. It wasn't as dry as before, I suspect I added too much flour the last time. Instant read thermometer showed 203 degrees after 40 minutes, recipe said bake 40 to 45 minutes. I also added dry milk as was suggested.
Mike, when using the autolyse step, do you add instant dry yeast after all the other ingredients have been mixed? I wasn't sure enough to try that. I added active dry yeast with the other dry ingredients without proofing after "chatting" with a KAF baker on the hotline, and she said that would be fine.
Overall, the flavor was great and the loaf wasn't dry. But it also only had a 3 inch rise. I was hoping for more. I didn't use the proofing box, left it on the counter in the 68 degree kitchen for two hours the first time. It puffed up nicely in the first hour but not after that. Also in the pan, it rose so that the sides of the dough were even with the pan and it had a dome in the middle. But then the second hour, no more rise. I never can seem to get the sides of the dough to rise above the pan so that the bread has that ear or handle look. Not sure how to describe it, but in commercial loaves the top is wider than the bottom and then curves around. Also, I had to add over half a cup of flour when mixing/kneading and it was still sticking to my hands when I took it out, but I didn't want to add any more flour. I'll keep trying to get that nice rise so that it looks like real bread. And will try more suggestions from here and the recommended books. Thank you all for the help. Oh, and I weighed everything with the ounces conversion on the KAF site.
Such a wealth of knowledge and experiences here, and a willingness to share ideas! You all seem comfortable with each other and are very encouraging. I will go through each post today and write down all the suggestions so that my bread tonight will be better than ever. I bought an instant read thermometer and will try that out as well. Will take notes as I go and hope to have a good report to post tonight or tomorrow!
Thank you BakerAunt. I have had my Kitchen Aid since 1991 and it has a dough hook that looks like the letter "J." I will use a higher speed next time. I have not heard of the windowpane and will try that, along with the resting. You all seem so comfortable with baking and experimenting. I just see "failure" when something doesn't turn out right and then don't try it again. But I like the idea of making notes and keeping records of my results.
Thank you both for clarifying the yeast/sugar connection. I mix bread dough at low speed (2 out of 10 speeds) for 5 to 7 minutes. I have never let the dough rest but it makes sense. It sounds like BakerAunt's rest is at the beginning before kneading and Mike's is closer to the end. Should I do both? I only bake one loaf at a time so I would just let all the dough rest before shaping it into the pan? I don't divide the dough into loaves or rolls.
Wow! There is a lot of information here to read through! I am aleady learning a lot. BakerAunt, you're not kidding about loving to discuss baking. I use the active dry yeast in a jar. When a recipe calls for packets, I use the conversion on the jar. I think it's 2.25 tsp equals one packet. And I proof it in warm water with a little sugar. But after reading the post about sugar interfering with yeast, I won't do that anymore. I also fluff up the flour and spoon it into the measuring cup. I saw that on the KAF website. Mike, what is the bench rest? I'm thinking it is after the dough has been deflated from the first rise (in the bowl) and before it goes into the pan for the second rise. Is that right? I have several of the recommended books on reserve at the libray and am anxious to get started reading and baking!
It looks as if I have some reading to look forward to this winter. Aaronatthedoublef, I use a Kitchen Aid stand mixer that was a gift 27 years ago so I don't know how much more life it has. I also use a bread proofer for the rise, set to 80 degrees. The rise in the bowl looks fine but the pan rise doesn't get very high and then doesn't rise more in the oven. One of the posters here wrote that whole wheat flour dough takes a longer time to rise so maybe I'm putting it into the oven too soon (after about an hour pan rise). I did try the KAF whole wheat recipe that you referenced, with orange juice. My loaf rose about 2.5 inches at the most, nothing like the KAF photo and comments. And there is another 100% whole wheat flour recipe on their site that I tried with equally disappointing results. (I use Red Star active dry yeast that I get at Walmart.) You and Mike mentioned going back to using a stand mixer from a bread machine. I thought that a bread machine would give better results and have thought about getting one. It seems that isn't right.
Mike thanks for sharing your history. You bring an interesting perspective to baking.
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