Kitchens and Cooks

This topic has 12 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 3 months ago by BakerAunt.

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August 7, 2019 at 12:51 pm #17422
BakerAunt
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I recently came across two articles that discuss what I'd call the cultural philosophy of the kitchen. (If you can come up with a more precise term, go ahead.) The first was included as a link in Deb Perelman's last Smitten Kitchen blog post. It has TMI on a show that I don't watch and am glad that I don't, but the first part of the article, with its picture of the 1950s revolutionary kitchen is interesting:

https://www.curbed.com/2019/8/1/20747174/big-little-lies-houses-set-design

The second one is by Ruth Reichl, in which she discusses what, for her, makes for the essence of a kitchen:

https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/organizing/organizing-kitchen/ruth-reichl

BTW, the Reichl article has one right after it about kitchen organization--and some of the ideas, IMHO, appear to be for people with WAY TOO MUCH TIME on their hands, and who don't do that much real cooking in their kitchens.

I find these discussions interesting because I often think about how kitchens have changed from the room closed off from everything else to open concept--the latter requiring a degree of tidiness that I personally don't associate with kitchens. Our now remodeled kitchen is open concept, in part because that is how the long narrow house is built, and people mostly come in the back door (front door is on lake side), which means they walk through the kitchen, although there is another side door that lets entrants bypass the kitchen.

My husband did not want me to have canisters, etc. on the counter of our new kitchen, but that's not how I work. Given the moderate storage capacity of our new kitchen, I don't expect to hear complaints once we are settled about various jars of beans, pasta, etc. However, I am trying to organize on the counters, so that it won't be cluttered, and I am keeping the unrefrigerated flours and sugar in the big utility pantries.

So, I'm curious: What would you say is the cultural philosophy of your kitchen?

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- This topic was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by BakerAunt.
- This topic was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by BakerAunt.
August 7, 2019 at 2:22 pm #17425
Italiancook
Participant
I couldn't live with an open kitchen. I want guests sitting in the dining room, enjoying conversation and my beautiful tablescape. I don't want them seeing pans on the stove or prep dishes in the sink while they eat. When I'm cooking or baking, I put all the used utensils in one side of the sink and load the dishwasher after the meal.

Having said that, I don't like counter clutter. I keep canisters in the pantry. I have the stand mixer on a counter and don't like it there. It's just too heavy to move from cabinet to counter top. I bought a white cover for it from KitchenAid, and it looks presentable. Plus, the cover keeps the bowl clean. I also have 3 cruets of different types of olive oil on the counter. I tolerate that, because they look nice.
August 7, 2019 at 4:31 pm #17428
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
I prefer a separate kitchen, which is what we have. My son's house has an open kitchen, the first floor is essentially one big room.

I also don't like eat-in counters in the kitchen. We have an informal dining area just off the kitchen that is part of the family room on first floor. We also have a formal dining room that is used mainly when there are more than 5 people eating. Currently my wife is using the dining table for a sewing project, her sewing room is off the formal dining room, and she also has a big jigsaw puzzle on the table, one that is too big for the table she usually uses for puzzles.
August 7, 2019 at 7:34 pm #17434
BakerAunt
Participant
I've never been fond of eat-in counters. What I had in my house in Texas before I got married was an alcove at the end of the kitchen where I had a kitchen table. I liked that for informal eating, working the crossword or reading the paper while eating breakfast, or for the extra space it gave for major cooking projects, like lots of cookies. I still have that kitchen table, which has been in my family for most of my life--the kind with the hard, "faux wood grain" on top--but because this kitchen is so small, it had to go into our apt. The dining room in my Texas house was off the other side of the kitchen and was open to the small living room.

I like having a formal dining room or area. Our initial phase of home renovation here in Indiana created a formal dining area in the open concept and has a lovely view of the lake. For informal eating, go down two steps and cross the living area to the sunroom at the front of the house, and take in the view.

HGTV just finished a contest for "$250,000" toward "your dream kitchen." Uh, I didn't spend anywhere close to that amount. HGTV puts too much focus on bells and whistles, and I often wonder how many of those people actually cook or bake. One of the installers of our new range said that it was really nice to be installing such a great stove for people who actually intend to make good use of it.
August 8, 2019 at 8:07 am #17444
chocomouse
Participant
For our informal, retired lifestyle, the open floor plan we designed when we had our house built in 1985 fits us perfectly. We don't entertain much, but when we do, it is large, family gatherings. The large island in the kitchen area (which is actually pretty small, but I do have a huge walk-in pantry nearby) is perfect for setting out foods buffet style. And I can cook and socialize at the same time - company who do not cook are often mesmerized while watching, for example, the making of gravy! There is a gigantic stone fireplace in the living room area for cozy seating, and views from the kitchen through the dining area and out through the passive solar sunroom. I cannot tolerate the confining boxy rooms I grew up with in a colonial style house, but need open spaces and floor to cathedral ceiling windows. I do sometimes regret the small kitchen and the shortage of counter-top work space. It's interesting what a kitchen (one that is used and is a personal choice) can tell you about personality.
August 8, 2019 at 9:12 am #17445
BakerAunt
Participant
Chocomouse--I envy you your walk-in pantry. My dream kitchen would have one, just as my grandmoher's large kitchen did, but we had a space limitation here. Open shelves are great when you want to find and grab just the right bowl and pot. My grandmother's narrow walk-in pantry had a window at the back that looked onto the backyard, and a wooden step stool. It had curtains that could be drawn across the door, and I found it a wonderful retreat for when I wanted to sit and think about something.

That was a large kitchen. It had two sets of tall utility cabinets that as young kids we could stand in--we played "phone booth" with them. she had a white painted "Hoosier," that fascinated us, as we were used to built-in cabinetry. It was a single room in the back of the house, but it had doors leading into the dining room and into the main living area. The back door went onto a covered utility porch where the coal scuttle was kept, although the house had not used coal in years.
August 8, 2019 at 10:04 am #17447
aaronatthedoublef
Participant
We have a kitchen that sounds similar to Mike's. We have a kitchen with an island that we use for prep and also for eating/entertaining. My wife also currently uses it for her office. Our daughter likes to eat there to sit next to her mom.

We have an informal dining area off the kitchen which connects to the family room. Then we also have a formal dining room off the kitchen. What I don't like about our kitchen is that I cannot seal off the noise of the kitchen from the rest of the house. So if the kids are playing or watching television in the family room and we're using a blender or mixer it's very loud in the family room and even on the second floor where we have bed rooms.

My wife is like BA's husband and likes everything put out of sight. I like what we use all the time at hand. Plus, we do not have a pantry or enough storage so we compromise some.

How much do people really cook and really bake. We have a huge Walmart that used to have a massive amount of ingredients. Lots of different flours and meals from KAF, Bob's, Pillsbury, etc. It's been mostly replaced with mixes and in fact the sign does not even mention flour any more - sugar, spices, and mixes.

We were at KAF last weekend and their shop was mostly mixes.

At the same time there are blogs and shows like Great British/American Baking Shows (if the American version ever comes back). And most of the Food TV baking competitions have some number of home bakers. So where are these folks buying their ingredients?
August 8, 2019 at 12:12 pm #17449
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
Our kitchen is 17 x 18 feet, with a large center island that has a prep sink on the south side, along with a 2 drawer SubZero undercounter refrigerator, and an electric cooktop on the north side. There's a stack of drawers beside the prep sink, and drawer/cabinet space on both sides of the cooktop.

The west wall has a 48" DCS Dual Fuel range with a vented range hood, with granite countertop to the right and butcher block to the left. The granite extends to the north wall, which has the dishwasher, a double sink and the pantry cabinet, plus additional under-cabinet storage (we call it the 'overstock' area.) There's a lazy susan in the corner with 2 shelves.

The south wall has more butcher block countertop, lots of under-cabinet storage and a 48" butcher block table that has a marble slab on it. The butcher block countertops is at a lower height than the granite countertop. The lower cabinets are all 30" deep (standard is 24") and the upper cabinets are all 16" deep (standard is usually 13"). There's bookcases above the table.

The east wall has side-by-size SubZero refrigerator and freezer, some more storage areas, and a desk area that has a microwave on it and another bookcase above it.

The under-cabinet storage areas all have a drawer at the top, so we have a total of 9 top drawers around the outside and 3 more on the island. Every top drawer has a pull-out cutting board surface, which gives us extra temporary work space. (The desk drawer is the only one that doesn't have the pull-out). All of the under-cabinet storage areas have pull-out shelves, 2 per cabinet.

There's a warming drawer below the cooktop, though we generally just use it as a snack drawer, and pot storage below that.

There's also a butler's pantry just off the kitchen, mainly for fancy dishes and stuff we don't use every day.
August 8, 2019 at 4:49 pm #17459
BakerAunt
Participant
Mike--Although I have just re-done my kitchen, and I do like it, I am drooling. A butler's pantry would have been so nice, but we had to put the washer and dryer somewhere.

I wanted pull out "cutting boards"--not for cutting but, as Mike notes, for the extra space, but they were not an option in the cabinet line we chose, and custom cabinets were not in the budget. I also think that the HGTV folks have soured most people on them, but then HGTV kitchens are for people who do not cook or bake. I've seen some cabinets with drawers at the bottom that can be opened with a tap of the foot, but I was told that If I did that, I couldn't have the top drawers. I did choose three wide drawers (and two smaller ones) for on top, and we have two deeper drawers on one cabinet. I have a very nice bookcase that I was able to fit in, as well as a buffet-type cabinet. These are stand alone pieces, but very useful. We might consider adding upper cabinets over them at some point.

I have achieved one major objective: My husband and I no longer run into each other when we make breakfast. His breakfast prep area is next to the microwave, and mine is next to the stove and island. Our paths only cross if I need the milk, but since his oatmeal method involves sitting time, I can usually get to that without a collision.

As for Aaron's point--the Walmart in the town north of us where we do our grocery run has also cut back on its selection of flours, and I was very irritated that when I went to buy another 10 lb. bag of KAF flour, that size is no longer being carried.
August 8, 2019 at 7:10 pm #17462
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
I'm not sure KAF still sells the 10 pound bags in some parts of the country, the only place I've ever seen one in Nebraska is at the Whole Foods in Omaha, the one in Lincoln doesn't carry that size. And the 25 pound bag seems even scarcer.
August 8, 2019 at 7:57 pm #17466
chocomouse
Participant
I just bought a bag of KAF AP flour yesterday at Bjs. It is 12 pounds, whereas I think I've been getting 10 pounds there in the past. It was 7.99.
August 8, 2019 at 8:33 pm #17467
Mike Nolan
Keymaster
I'm currently getting 5 pound bags of KAF AP flour for around $3.50 at WalMart, and if I bought a 3 pack from walmart.com I could get it for around $3.09 a bag.

I've never seen a 12 pound bag of flour! 50 pound bags of flour are around $20 these days through restaurant supply outlets, but you have to know what type of flour you're after.

There isn't a BJ's anywhere near us. There's a Restaurant Depot in Omaha, but you have to have a tax permit to buy from them or even see what they carry. I've been to a few GFS stores, but there isn't one of those near us, either. Sams and Costco mostly carry bleached flours.
August 8, 2019 at 10:08 pm #17470
BakerAunt
Participant
Well, the 10 lb. bag was being sold here because I bought one, and I delayed buying another one until we were back in the house, and now they don't have it. They also appear to have stopped carrying the Montana Gold, but I had stopped buying that because I prefer Bob's Red Mill. Once or twice, when we were driving between here and Texas, I bought a 25 lb. bag at the Walmart in Rantoul, IL. I assumed that because it was a farming area, there was more demand for large bags. Walmart still has the best price on 5 lbs. of KAF. Kroger charges almost $5, unless there is a special running for people with member cards.
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