September 13, 2018 at 12:35 pm #13454
In Bernard Clayton’s revised and expanded New Complete Book of Breads, he has a Multi-Grain Beead that I want to try. I think that it should make 3 8×4 loaves. I have two questions, and if no one is around to answer, then I’ll push ahead later this afternoon and experiment.
Here’s the ingredient list:
1 cup rolled oats
1 cup barley flour
1 cup millet
1 Tbs. brown sugar (I’ll probably use honey)
2 tsp. salt
2 cups water
1/3 cup cooking oil
3 packages dry yeast
1 1/2 cups fresh or instant mashed potatoes
2 cups whole wheat flour
3/4 cup rye flour
2 cups bread flour
1. I want to substitute potato flour for freshly mashed potatoes. King Arthur’s blog, surprisingly, only tells how to substitute fresh mashed potatoes for potato flour when you run out. It says to use 3/4 cup potatoes and REDUCE liquid by 50%. So, if I am going the other way (and why isn’t THAT in their information?), I’d use 1/2 cup potato flour and increase the liquid, perhaps by 1 cup?
Note: I’ll probably try to use at least 2 cups buttermilk (soak the oats, barley flour and millet at start). I’d use the water to proof the yeast.
2. Three packages of yeast would be 6 3/4 tsp. That seems like a lot, and when this cookbook was published, yeast was not as strong as now. For the other Clayton whole grain recipe I make, I subtract 1/4 tsp. for each package of yeast. Six tsp. still seems like a lot. (I’m envisioning the I Love Lucy episode where she dumps in a lot of yeast, and when she opens the oven a long loaf of bread pushes its way out–not the way it would work, of course, but still funny.) So, would I need 6 tsp. yeast, or would 5 tsp. suffice?
Thanks for any suggestions, and I’ll report back on the experiment.September 13, 2018 at 2:16 pm #13455
Well, to make 1 1/2 cups of mashed potatoes from instant potato flakes, you’d use 3/4 cup liquid and 3/4 cup potato flakes. Potato flour may be a bit more dense than potato flakes because it is ground up more, so there’s less air in it when you dry measure it. (I wish more people gave instructions by weight.)September 13, 2018 at 2:54 pm #13457
I get particularly irked when a recipe says “a cup of zucchini, or a cup of blueberries or 2 medium bananas.” While Clayton’s cookbook came out before kitchen scales became widespread in home kitchens, modern recipe writers really should know better.
I’m going to go with 1 cup of water, given all the whole grains and my plan to substitute 2 cups of buttermilk at the start.
The original recipe is baked in three 1 lb. coffee cans, but Clayton casually mentions that there will be leftover dough to put in another loaf pan or brioche dishes. This will be an experiment.September 13, 2018 at 3:10 pm #13459
Well, a 1 pound coffee can held about 4 cups, which is about the same volume as most 8×4 bread pans. When making something like brown bread you would fill the can about 2/3 full.September 13, 2018 at 3:31 pm #13461
I guess that I haven’t seen a one pound coffee can in years. I remember they went down to 13 oz. I buy coffee beans and grind them these days.
I am hoping that three 8×4 inch loaf pans will do the trick.September 13, 2018 at 3:38 pm #13462
Well, with loaf pans if they rise a bit more than you expected, it’s usually not a major problem.
We don’t drink coffee, but I don’t think I’ve seen a traditional one-pound coffee can in the stores in years. Most of the ground coffees seem to be in plastic pouches these days.September 13, 2018 at 5:27 pm #13466
I have mixed up the dough, and it is rising in a rising bucket where I can keep an eye on its progress.
I decided to substitute 1 cup barley flakes for the barley flour. I know that can work with oats; we shall see how the barley flakes perform. I soaked the oats, barley flakes and millet in 2 cups buttermilk for a bit before I proofed the yeast with 1 Tbs. of honey in 1 cup water. I used 1/2 cup potato flour. It is a very heavy dough. It seemed a bit dry, so I added 1 Tbs. of water. Initially, I had to keep stopping the mixer and move it around. I kneaded it for 8 minutes in my 7-quart Cuisinart stand mixer. I suspect that this dough cannot be over kneaded.
I’ll report back when I shape and pan them for the second rise.September 13, 2018 at 6:36 pm #13467
Recipe writers from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s tended to use more yeast, though for the most part both active and instant dry yeast have been pretty consistent since the mid 60’s when the current processes were developed. More recent authors, like Peter Reinhart have been advocating using only as much yeast as needed, often cutting back on yeast then adding additional rise time, the classic trade off for bakers is more time = more flavor.September 13, 2018 at 7:52 pm #13470
If you want an expensive substitute for a coffee can, fantes sells one. Its one of the many things that look fun but I can’t really justify.
Laurel’s Kitchen said that they started in the 60’s baking whole grain bread in coffee cans, because even when it didn’t rise properly it could still be cut into a reasonable shape for sandwiches.
That bread looks like it would be very heavy with all the whole grains, especially the ones that don’t have gluten. I hope it turns outs well.
Recipes that call for a cup of blueberries or zucchinni are fine. Its the ones that call for two medium onions or one carrot that irritate me. How big is a medium onion?September 13, 2018 at 8:00 pm #13471
From the 70s, I have Bucket Bread posted here on this site. We love this bread with homemade apple butter.September 13, 2018 at 8:58 pm #13473
I ended up using 6 tsp. of yeast, and perhaps it should have been 4 1/2 or 5 tsp. The very fast rise worried me, so I decided that I would give it a second rise before shaping and the third rise. In the past, I’ve had breads that had a fast first rise collapse. That may not have been a good decision, but it was what I did. They were rather small in the pan, so I might have been able to use just two 8×4 pans. I ended up with three rather low loaves–certainly not sandwich bread size–which will likely be rather dense. I’ll add a post tomorrow about taste and texture.September 13, 2018 at 9:11 pm #13476
Slice the bread thinly and eat with plenty of cream cheese! Thats my solution to breads that end up a little too heavy.
Better luck next time! Perhaps it might work out better if your ground the barley in a coffee grinder. Or soak all the whole grains overnight before mixing it into the bread.September 13, 2018 at 9:46 pm #13477
Unfortunately, I’m on a low-saturated fat diet, and 1 Tbs. of regular cream cheese has 6 grams. I do, however, have plenty of homemade jam, in three flavors, that I made earlier this summer.
The taste will determine if I decide to give it another try. Figuring out how much yeast to use, keeping the dough to two rises (I could kick myself for not just shaping and panning it in spite of the quick first rise), and possibly using different pans might make a difference. Each pan had 663g of dough, and my 8×4 pans usually have unbaked dough of about 860g.I have some 7×3 pans, and they might have worked better.
September 14, 2018 at 7:28 am #13480
- This reply was modified 4 months ago by BakerAunt.
When I first started to do all whole wheat bread seriously, I made English Muffins. I have the rings that are used to bake in the oven, and I would make 8 or 9 muffins. Sometimes they rose high like little mushrooms, and sometimes they were flatter. whichever way the heavy dough didn’t have to labor at lifting two or three inches of itself. I think flatter breads with plenty of air space lets the heavier doughs rise more easily. I always did Christmas Stolen recipes as braided breads with plenty of space between the strands.
Remember if the bread is too heavy, it is great to throw at geese! Take a bottle of wine and a friend along. If you are one of those people who hate to waste bread, they can be made into croutons or stuffing or bread crumbs.September 14, 2018 at 11:58 am #13481
I found a blog that features this bread:
And, yes, that is exactly what my loaves look like.
I have a feeling this recipe is not worth a repeat.
I’m wondering if slicing a loaf thinly, brushing with butter, and toasting would produce an interesting “hard bread” cracker. I may try that.
If all else fails, we have a “bread hound,” who mooches bread off of my husband who is trying to get her to love him….September 14, 2018 at 12:14 pm #13482
In my web surfing, I also found this tribute to Bernard Clayton:September 14, 2018 at 3:04 pm #13483
Yeah, a lot of whole grain breads are really dense, which is why the Pepperidge Farms loaves are sliced so thin.
Peter Reinhart has a recipe in his whole grains book for Broom Bread, that sometimes comes out fairly light but not always, and I’m not at all sure why.September 14, 2018 at 4:23 pm #13484
Bernard Clayton’s Dark Grains Bread comes out light, in spite of being about 70% whole grain–buckwheat flour, rye flour, wheat germ, whole wheat flour. I had hoped this one would also be light, but clearly, it is not meant to be. I think that the millet is the element that moves it toward heavy.September 16, 2018 at 5:16 pm #13503
Darn it, my husband really likes the flavor and wants me to try baking it again. (He and the dog consumed half of the second loaf today.) I might try it in three 7-inch pans I have.September 17, 2018 at 12:27 pm #13506
I’m glad your husband and your dog appreciates the bread. Perhaps you could slice it thinly, and bake it again to make crackers for your dog? I’m sure it would be healthy for him.
Let us know how your next attempt comes out.
Do you have bone shaped cookie cutters so you can bake doggie biscuits?September 18, 2018 at 6:00 am #13514
I do somewhere have a bone-shaped dog biscuit cutter. I used to bake dog biscuits for my sister’s dog before he went on a special diet. It was a more complicated recipe, so I only made them twice.
I’ve been looking for a recipe for our current dog, but so far, I’ve not found an acceptable one that does not include stuff (like cinnamon) that I do not want to feed her.
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